GSD with blown disk in back - Page 1

Hello:

I have a question regarding back problems.  My 3 year old black GSD ruptured a disk in his lower back in mid-December.  He is a working dog - no slope at all.  He is on the rangy side, 88 lbs - with no excess fat on him.  We were training for french ring and aiming to go to trial for brevet this spring.  He ruptured the disk at home (most likely slipping on the hardwood floor) not on the field. He had slow neurological responses in both his back legs (left worse that right) initially.  Treatment was conservative - methocarbamol for 3 days and rimadyl for 3 weeks.  Crate rest - only allowed out 4 time a day to be leash walked for as long as it took to relieve himself. 

After 6 weeks, back to the vet we went.  He was happy with Grim's progress, however advised Grim should never be allowed to do bitework or jumps.  Ever.  Obedience is fine.  Back surgery is not recommended.

Other vets have told me that he may never have a problem again - or he could blow out his back and be paralyzed. 

The problem I have is that he absolutely LOVES to work.  Especially bitework.  I know that all dogsports carry an inherent risk, but I can't bring myself to put is back at risk knowing it's compromised. 

Has anyone had a dog come back from a blown disk and work?  Or tried to bring them back and failed?

Any input would be appreciated.

There will always be a disability factor, therefore the dog will always be disadvantaged. And since you know there is a susceptibility to disk issues, why would you do it?

January 6th 2012 I put my 12 yr 7 mo old male shepherd down-basically from two ruptured disc-for many years he had a "sore" back-flinching when touched but remained active and happy on moderate pain killers until January of 2011 when he commenced to sit hunched against the wall with his eyes closed-he was placed on stronger pain killers and continued to be active,  although he had drugged his left hind foot to some degree over the years it became bad enough that he wore the two middle toenails to almost nothing-he also would stand with his hind end sinking downward-the last couple of weeks his hind feet would get tangled on our treks around the property-then I noted blood on the top of his left rear foot and he was having trouble placing the foot in proper position-we visited the vet who had treated him his entire life and he told me when the dog could longer get up it would be time-two days later his left hind leg quit working repeatly throughout the day-causing him to go down-he would rest-get up and go a distance and go down again-I made the appointment and Doc assured me it was time.

The first rupture I believe occurred while training for Search and Rescue and the second the morning he escaped the technicans after his GDV surgery.
I wish I had be able to provide the back surgery-he might still be with me-but at least he is free of pain now.

 

As I have only worked with humans on this issue and not dogs, was the disc herniated? Or did it tear? Without surgery, he will most likely never completely heal and will have issues from here on out. Ive never heard of spine surgery for dogs. Maybe someone else can chime in and say if they do it. I can tell you however after many years of human spine surgery, lifelong issues persist usually getting worse with age.

So I would say this to you. Would your dog rather be active and live only a short time OR live a longer time most likely medicated and not doing what he likes to do. What other venues can you introduce that he might like just as much? No one can really answer this for you. Only you know your own dog.

Barb

Barb, thank you for your reply. He ruptured it and some of the jelly like fluid oozed out which caused the weakness in his back end. Currently, I'm still leash walking him on a flexi to give him more range. He looks sound and is acting very happy. No meds right now. My vet said that he doesn't think we would've gotten any better results with surgery. There is a vet in CT at pieper Olsen in Middletown who has had good results with back surgeries. A friend of mine who also a vet and competes both in schutzhund and French ring said back surgery for pets is fine but not for working dogs. Before I got him he was trained in personal protection, I started him in ring. He does the obedience portion fine but absolutely loved the jumps and the bitework. I have started him back on obedience to keep him occupied. He's the kind of dog that needs a job and wouldn't be happy being a couch potato or just hanging around the house. However knowing that he could go down and never walk again if I sent him over a jump or at the decoy...I can't risk that not knowing that other dogs may have had the same type of issue and came back.

If you completely believe that he will only be happy working, then that is what he should do. Better to go out happy, then live a long miserable life. Of course, this is only if he recovers well. 

What is his pedigree ? Is there any history of this type of thing in there ?

Bear in mind that this is about a Chihuahua, not a GSD, but this is my experience with ruptured discs. 

I came home from work to find my Chi (then about 7yrs old???) walking very hunched and had pretty severe ataxia in his hind legs. He couldn't jump into my car. He had epilepsy, so I first thought it was neurological and maybe he'd had a seizure right before I'd gotten home, because he often was uncoordinated for a few minutes after them. Anyway, when he didn't improve in half an hour, I took him to the regular vet, who dianosed DJD, a progressive disease which would eventually lead to paralysis. The recommendation was rest and prednisone and just wait for eventual paralysis if he injured it again. That didn't sit right with me; this was a very active, muscular, fun little dog who did everything the big dogs could do. I knew he would injure it again, and I didn't think steroids and a sedentary life were in his best interest.

I took him to a specialist in orthopedic and neurological surgery and he looked at him and said the only sure way to tell what was going on in that spine was to MRI, which was $1000. He was hesitant because of the cost, but  I said to do it, and it's a good thing. He saw 2 clearly ruptured discs which were putting pressure on his spinal cord. They would never improve, and more could rupture. He saw ZERO degeneration in the spine, so that first vet's recommendation was totally ineffective and would've solved NOTHING. He said he could fix it by removing the trashed discs and then as a safety precaution, he would kind of "weave" back and forth throughout the vertebrae to hold them in place enough where if another ruptured, it would not pop out and put pressure on the spinal cord, so while it may be sore, it would not paralyze him. He called the weaving procedure "fenestration."  He said he could do the surgery after his last appt. for the day, as waiting is very dangerous once you know you have a ruptured disc, or more. 

Surgery was hugely successful, and while the dog would sometimes arch his back, then stretch it out as if it was sore, he lived the rest of his life as normal as could be. Was it cheap? No, but it was worth not worrying about him not being able to live like a normal dog and not having to be on any pain meds. 

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"jelly like fluid" Are you talking about spinal fluid...Lets hope not because if the spinal fluid becomes infected that could be a death sentance. If you think it was spinal fluid, you should keep a watchful eye on your dog. Im not sure if dogs get headaches but for humans they are almost unbearable.

Since your not going to do surgery, id be looking into some type of homeopathic treatment to see if the body will repair the tear. It isn't likely but I have learned over the years that you can NEVER dismiss the body and it's ability to heal.

Blown disk you say? So sorry, some things go beyond what the body can repair. I had the surgery, laproscopy, you know, microsurgery? Where they suck the disc stuff out to relieve pressure on the nerve? . The jelly like stuff is the matter of the disk itself, not spinal fluid. If one lets the space between the vertebrae heal and fill with whatever fluid fills the space, and the body is not expected to perform at its former 100 percent self, the outcome can be satisfactory.

Now, you didn't say if you had Xrays done by your first vet, Jenni, before the MRI, did you, or did I miss that somewhere? Xrays should have shown the compression, I would think, which would then lead one to consider an MRI, to help determine if one is a candidate for surgery. That's how I remember it, anyway.

I don't remember which vet did the xrays, but they were done. Still, the MRI showed what xrays would/could not, and it was happy news;-)