Sloppy sit/down and food/feeding question. - Page 1

Everyone has been very helpful in the past and I appreciate it.  Long post so I'll appologize in advance.

Rico's a week shy of 5 months now.  We just left the vet and he's 62lbs which seems rather large for his age.  He is lean but imo could be a tad leaner.  You can feel all his ribs when you pet his sides but not as easily as I think you should so I've cut his portions back a little bit. 

He's had what I believe a food allergy (lots of itching).  I have it narrowed down to either beef or eggs.  I'm not sure which.  After a terrible stint with Canidae, I switched to Innova which has a much simpler ingredients list and his scratching got better but did not go away completely.  I then went to Natural Balance Sweet Potatoe and Venison which I have been supplementing with raw venison to up the meat content since it's a little lacking.  His itching has almost completely gone away over the last few weeks, his skin isn't flaky and the odd odor has gone away so problem solved (hopefully). 

I'll re-introduce beef/egg at different times to try and figure out which it is.  I'm guessing beef because we gave him a Bully Stick to chew on and the next day he seemed a little more itchy although it could be my imagination.  Hopefully that isn't it because those things are wonderful. ll

1. I'm still feeding him 3x per day and he's always hungry around lunch so I'm not sure when I should cut him back to 2x or even if that's necessary at all.  Any suggestion on when is a good time to reduce the number of feedings?

2. He's still teething so his ears are down and like most people I'm jonesing over them standing.  I have read a lot on calcium supplementation and most I have read really stress not to do calcium tablets for fear of knocking his calc/phosphorous ratio out of wack.  However, I keep seeing people suggest ester-c while he's teething.  500mg 3x per week.  Any opinions on this?

3. His training is going well with a couple of exceptions.  He sits sloppy most of the time and almost always lays sloppy if you know what I mean.  How do I train him to sit straight and lay (during training) with his feet under him?  I've done a lot of searching and haven't had any luck finding a good suggestion. 

Thanks so much for any input.

How are you training him to sit at the moment?

Sounds to me like the dog is not motivated.  He is not on the edge of his seat waiting for that explosion.  Does he have drive for food or toy?  What method of training are you using?  Rewards need to be precise and only given for the correct response.

One thing that I used to do with my boy when he was young and growing was to have him push into me for food for the sit.  And then only reward him for the correct sit.  He also used to want to rock back a bit on the sit for the front.  Basically had to almost do a back bend, or felt like I was to teach him to push forward. 

I tell him to sit and he sits, or I give him the "come" command and he runs to me and sits in front of me when he arrives.  Just not neatly.  He sits down and his legs sorta spread out a little bit.  I can only describe it as he's sitting on his hind end instead of up on his hocks. 

He is way more food motivated than toy motivated.  I do not give him the reward until he's sitting but it looks like I need to only give him the reward when he sits "properly" I guess.

rezkat5- can you explain what you mean by push into you?  Do you mean into your leg when he's healing and you stop which is when he will sit beside you? 

Hopefully I've answered your questions...

He is 5 months and you have not built drive or motivation.  You sound like a predominant Kohler trainer.  " I tell him to sit and he sits"  WOW!!!!!  Let me come to your house and tell you what to do.  Your dog is not motivated to be told what to do.  This dog needs a different approach.  

I wouldn't be doing any formal obedience at this time.  I would be building drive and having fun.  You can play ball and teach at the same time.  Do you remember Karate Kid, the movie.  If so, do you remember when Mr miagi had Daniel  wax the cars, paint the fense, sand the floors and paint the house.  Daniel was pissed because he felt like he was being used.  Mr. Miagi showed Daniel that all these things were exercises in blocking form.  The whole time, Daniel was learning. 

Comprende, Grasshopper?

I appreciate you input Don.

I don't know what Kohler is. 

I've trained all my dogs the same way.  Give command, show them the intended action, reward when it is performed.  It's worked with all my other dogs for the basic family obedience and off leash things we do with them. 

Can you explain what you mean by building drive?  How is it accomplished and what is the benefit of it given my current problem? 

Thanks a lot.

Oh boy!  I have to go in a minute, but I'm sure the peanut gallery will help out.

Dogs possess a certain amount of drive or motivation.  People do too!  Dogs have and are not limited to prey, ball, hunt, food, defense, etc.  People can be motivated by money, sex drive etc.

Every dog has a different levels of each drive.  If the dog is not high prey, maybe he has adequate food drive/motivation. 

You can use these to get a response.  When you use the Kohler method, there is not much motivating the dog other than not being corrected and an "atta boy"  every once in a while.   

You can use the Kohler Method and get a great dog.  He will not look like a flashy dog while doing the work, but he may be correct.  All I'm saying is that it's easier to get a Greyhound to  race when there is a rabbit to chase.

Try this for a little motivation and a more upbeat pup.  Slice a hotdog so that you have 4 long quarters.  Lure the pup forward with the hotdog and keep moving backwards.  Bring the hotdog up towards your mouth and stop at the same time.  It will be natural for the pup to stop in front of you while looking up at his food reward giving you a more focused and straighter sit.  Reward with both a small nibble of the treat and an enthusiastic BRAVO or whatever you use.  Repeat several hundred times.  

I eventually stop moving backward and will "fuss" the pup while luring him with the hotdog.  I'll give them small nibbles while moving to keep them motivated.  Keep the hotdog slightly over  his head though to keep his focus up towards you.  Always bring the hotdog up to your mouth and then down to him so that you get him looking at YOU for the food and not just at the food.  I don't usually work with a pup that young longer than 5-10 minutes and then I get the tug out and have some fun with them.  Gets them looking forward to work time.

On the front, use a food lure at a target somewhere in the abdomen depending on the size of the dog to get the dog to "push" into you.  I think Don has it right the dog needs to have some drive built either with a food or a toy at this point to get what you want.  ie:  tease with a toy or food then ask the dog to sit.  Then see what you get.  Make it into a game at this point.  If the dog sits too slow or sits crooked, simply try again.  What you want is that the dog gets more motivated by the whole exercise vs. gettting squished in drive.  At this stage of the game, 5 months, EVERYTHING needs to be fun for him.  Correction only comes later.