Misrepresenting Pigment - Page 1

Hey - I just thought this would be an interesting discussion topic.

I noticed a couple of months ago that alot of the ads on the database had pictures that had been oversaturated...what I mean is that they made the green greener and the red redder.  Some of the pictures it's a guess whether or not the animal is really that red - and in others the over saturation is blatant.

The question I had was do ya'll think that is okay or is it a misrepresentation of the pigment of that dog.

~Cate

Alot of times cameras don't faithfully represent the proper pigmentation of the dog, especially in overcast skies, and the photo is adjusted afterwards.  When this is done, it's almost always overdone, and can often be chalked up to human error.  It's recommended that when you think the amount is about right, back it up a step.  Here's some examples of "slightly overdone", "slightly underdone", and "just about right".

There's a lot of that, and typically with show dogs where "redder is better" seems to be the ideal.

Some people may be deliberately jacking up the saturation to make their dogs look better, but some folks could claim photoshop ignorance.  Nevertheless, any misrepresentation of the dog's pigment, considering it's a selling point for the show dogs, is unacceptable and folks positng pictures should learn the basics of digital photography and image editing before hawking their wares.  It's not a sophisticated fix... just slide that saturation bar from "more" to "less".

Here is an example of what I call the "Day Glo" shepherd.... clearly an oversaturated picture.  Unless that guy's been walking his dog by the local nuclear waste dump there's no explanation for that coat color.

Here is a picture that is "red-shifted", which is another less obvious misrepresentation....

This is more common than the over-saturation pics because it's less obvious to identify as a photoshop job.  The entire picture has a yellowish cast because the tint of the picture has been altered.  As a result, the dog's coat looks a deeper red than he really is. 

In either case, it's misrepresentation of the dog. 

Note:  many old historical photographs of GSD's have altered tints because the inks faded and thus altered the tint before they were scanned into digital form.  This is NOT a deliberate fabrication but it is largely correctable.  If the tint has been faded beyond the point that a natural picture can be recovered, then the best course of action is to remove the color entirely and produce a black and white digital image instead. 

I'll keep an eye out for any working line dogs with bad photoshop jobs, but they are not as common as the altered show dog pictures because the working crowd doesn't place a premium on coat color.  This is why I find it hard to believe the poster who claims ignorance - look at the working dog ads, and you'll you'll be hard pressed to find many "Day Glo" dogs.  Hmmmm.  I hate to open up the "show vs. work" can of worms, but does this mean the working line crowd is more computer savvy???? LOL.

Yvette

Daryl,

You are correct that the lighting of the scene can wash out colors of the dog's coat.  However, this is not difficult to correct, and it behooves the responsible and professional seller to take the effort to accurately portray their dogs.

Clearly, this could happen with anyone... for example, if someone were advertising a "black sable" DDR dog and posted a pic showing the dog darker than he/she really is, this would also be a misrepresentation. 

The differences in coat color that you have posted are quite subtle compared to some of the blatantly off-color pictures that are posted on this site.  Subtleties can be forgiven, but a carrot orange dog on a glowing green carpet of grass?  No.

This is the kind of crap that I think the OP was talking about.  It doesn't get much more blatant than that. 

Yvette

Yeah - alot of the time what makes me catch it is that the grass is so green.  But another hint is when the red starts to almost bleed over into the red...it just doesnt look real O.o  Kind of like that last pic that Yvette posted.

Something I have noticed that can help to correct lighting issues without jacking the saturation is with brightness and contrast - you can use both of those to correct the lighting issue without really altering the saturation - although when overdone it again obvious and also a misrepresentation.

It just strikes me as sort of silly - I've seen some WL pictures as well that do it - but more often than not it is the show pictures....I much prefer to see the actual coloring of the dog.

~Cate

Yeah - alot of the time what makes me catch it is that the grass is so green.  But another hint is when the red starts to almost bleed over into the red...it just doesnt look real O.o  Kind of like that last pic that Yvette posted.

Something I have noticed that can help to correct lighting issues without jacking the saturation is with brightness and contrast - you can use both of those to correct the lighting issue without really altering the saturation - although when overdone it again obvious and also a misrepresentation.

It just strikes me as sort of silly - I've seen some WL pictures as well that do it - but more often than not it is the show pictures....I much prefer to see the actual coloring of the dog.

~Cate

woops - sorry about that.

~Cate

 To be fair, I do think that there are some people who do not know much about computers, photoshop, color balance etc. Also digital cameras often do NOT represent color properly nor do photos that get scanned in. So my point is that many people may post and the trouble is in knowing who is intentionally trying to misrepresent. With color, it is not so clear. I personally look at the overall color patterns and do not worry so much about just how red or brown a dog is. I am looking for large areas of black and little or no white. And I am more interested in working ability, video proving that, as well as structure. 

some are obviously photo shopped...but sometimes they look funny because of the auto setting on a digital...espc. when your chasing the dog around and the auto setting is constantaly shifting to adjust to the lighting...my camera does that...these pics i took at the same time within sceonds of each other---

same time...two different colors...no photoshop..(except for cropping)....(btw- thats pine-straw not orange grass lol)

also...when i take pics at the end of the day, when the sun is setting...everything does look orange...even more so at certian time of the year...this one i took last late- summer, early fall...it was actually that orange outside...>>>>>

also my camera sucks..its getting kinda old for a digital....i took some pics recently with  one of my friends brand new camera-- much better with color...

I understand the concept that some digital cameras cannot accurately capture the coat color of the dog, especially when the light is unfavorable.  However, I take exception to anyone posting a dog for sale when the coat color is waaaaay off.  Especially when it's a show dog where red pigment has a marketable value.  Each poster should judge their own digital images and make the simple adjustments necessary to accurately represent their dogs.

Imagine if a working line dog were advertised for sale that was photoshopped to show a deeper grip on the sleeve.  LOL.

Please excuse me if I don't buy into the "oh innocent little me" excuse, not for every possible occurence.

Here's another example.  Another "red shift" - oh my and what a coincedence.

For the price that some of these puppies sell for, perhaps they could well afford to get someone to double-check their photos???