help with selection - Page 1

Hi everyone,

I have been lurking for awhile now but feel the need to post some questions. 

   I will soon be in the market for a GSD dog and I need some help from the experts.  I currently have a female GSD (spayed rescue from the pound) and a small corgi mix (also pound puppy).  The corgi is 15yrs old and he's failing in health and I am afraid it's not long before I lose him. 

I've seen it stated numerous times on here that it is crazy to spend $1500 on a puppy but most of the places I look at or people I have contacted usually state this price or close to it.  What is a good price and where or who should I look for to get him from?

I will be retiring from the Navy soon and taking a year or more off of work and am looking for a male GSD (puppy to 1yr old) to have fun with (obedience and some show).  I'm not looking for the top dog in the world but would not want to be laughed off the show grounds either.  We have a local shutzhund club but I am not sure that I want to go that route yet.  I also want to state that I do not want to breed dog's, just have fun with the 2 that I will have.  

Other things to be considered.  I already have a 6yr old GSD Female as stated before.  I also have a 16yr old Daughter and a 5 yr old Son.  I am not an experienced trainer but both my parents trained and showed dog's (Irish setters and whippets) when I was younger and I have owned dog's all my life. I also live in a pretty big city where obedience help and classes are offered. I don't have a large yard but there is a large area for them to run within 50yds of my house.

I hope this is enough info. I find most of the info on this board to be insightful and would appreciate any comments. 

Mike

forgot to mention that I am not looking for sable, white, or pure black.  I'm looking for 'black and tan/red, saddle back'.

So, my first question would be, if you're not planning to do schutzhund, just what venue will you be showing in? AKC? This is important, because an AKC style dog would not win against German-style dogs, and vica versa.

The three basic 'types' of GSD in N. America are:

AKC: most are overangulated in the front and rear, some can have shy, spooky temperments. Some have lost their working ability due to overangulation or poor temperment. However, there is a lot of variation. Expect to pay around $1,000 and up for a show-quality pup.

German Show Lines: most have a curved (roach back) when compared to the American dogs. They are more laid back in temperment than German working lines. Some have lost the drive needed to do schutzhund but would still do well in tracking or obedience. Expect to pay around $1,500 and up for a pup with show potential.

German Working LInes: tend to have higher drive than show lines. Some do not make good family pets due to this, others are fine as house dogs. Most have straight toplines, and do not rate as well in conformation as the showlines. Less expensive than show lines, but will definintely do best if given a job and lots of exercise.

Please note, these are generalizations only. There is a lot of individual variation between dogs. Be sure to see both sire and dam if possible, so you can assess their temperment. Ask what titles the parents have. Take an experienced person with you to help judge the puppies, so you have a better idea of what you're getting. Ask for proof of hip and elbow certification, vaccination, etc. Make SURE all paperwork (pedigrees, import papers, etc. ) is in order BEFORE purchasing. If the litter is AKC registered, you should be given the pup's permanent registration papers to fill in before you leave with the pup.

Prices will be less if you are willing to sign a non-breeding agreement at the time of purchase. Still, you will probably pay at least $600 or $700.

I'm sure others will have more advice to add, but that's the basics, as I see it.

I think sunsilver covered it pretty well,  I think I'll add look for a breeder whos got a good reputation and reference's.

Someone whos been showing and breeding long enough to actually have a reputation.   Check the parents pedigree for good OFA's and any show awards, titles.  See the kennel first hand to make sure the breeder keeps his animals well.

Suns right about the money.  You can find dogs cheap but you get what you pay for.  Its up to you how serious you want to be about showing your dog.    I think you could find a pet for much less than something worth showing.   And I would not rush into anything.

I would try to find a breeder locally, it would make all this much easier.

ifix46s...I guess a couple of things you need to think about before going into the buying of a German Shepherd...Like was said above...Are you looking for a Showline or a Workingline GSD...that's the first thing...and the next thing is...are you looking for something with fairly high drive or something for just a pet and to be around the house with you...or maybe both...

One thing you didn't mention is what's your location and are you going to be looking around where you live or are you willing to have a dog shipped in...and maybe you can go and visit a few places within reach...

~Bob~

Mike,

One thing that might help is if you gave us an idea of where you are located.   While Sunsilver did a good job of giving genralizations of the three types of GSDs you might find in the US, they are just that, generalizations.  All of us come from our own perspective.  There are very good representatives of the breed in all three areas.   I teach herding and work with dogs from all bloodlines, fortunately for the dogs, they don't know where their parents were born.  If you want to show in conformation but there are few German style shows in your area, then consider an American bred dog that is capable of showing at the all-breed shows.  These dogs are much more moderate.  Dogs that are shown at the group and Best in Show level must be very sound mentally to withstand the rigors of the showring at that level. Many successful German/American crosses are also shown here.   If you have access to lots of SV-style shows than consider a German show line dog, again always look for moderation, avoiding extremes in topline and size.  If you are looking at more working lines, find a up that is out of parents that received a KKL1 and have a decent show rating.  Look for a puppy that makes good eye contact, will chase a ball, and will settle after playing in any of the three.  I personally like to see pups that warm up quickly to strangers, will readily follow and are very interested in their surroundings.  I also look at structure and look for a puppy that trots more than gallops.  Lots of things change sas the pup gets older but that abilty to trot never does, it has something to do with the nerve synapsis.  The GSD is supposed to be a trotting breed, being able to trot cleanly as a young pup also tells me about the overall athleticsm of the puppy.   

Good luck, you sound like an awesome home, especially for a nice male.

Susan

Sue, excellent point about the trotting! I notice that many American line GSD pups tend to gallop rather than trot, because they are so weak and overangulated in the rear. If you look for a good, strong trot in a pup, you won't go far wrong, regardless of what line it is from.

If you do decide to go with an American line pup, I'd look for one with some German blood in the pedigree one or two generations back, to help improve the structure.

WOW!  Allot of good info for me to churn on.  I'm in Virginia Beach VA.  This has got my mind going 100mph. 

I have allot of research to do here. 

To be honest I would be looking for a good Family GSD that would do well in obedience trials.  I don't know enough about the different shows to even give a good answer as to where I would show.  My Mother and Father did all AKC so that is what I know.  I know that is not all there is. 

I'd say start from square one and put the price factor to the side temporarily. Give yourself a check list or "wish list" of the things you will not compromise in a pup.  From what you described your intentions to be you'd like to train more of a hobby than on a serious level. Nothing wrong with that.  I say put the price factor to the side simply because you may pass up on the perfect dog for yourself if you limit on the price tag.  When I set out to buy my 1st GSD I set a budget but my "wish list" was far more detailed than the price tag I was looking for. I paid double in the end from what I initially wanted to spend BUT I got more than I expected and today would have paid triple for the same dog.  Keep in mind your pup will be with you for many many years so take your time and don't limit yourself.

Anoather factor to consider is if you are going to show your GSD in AKC conformation, almost all the GSD's are professionally handled these days, and the pro handlers are often favoured when the ribbons are handed out. An owner handled dog will be at a disadvantage. (politics, politics!)

The obedience ring and tracking are different, however.