Civil vs. Prey - Page 1

I thought it might be best to start a new thread on this so as not to hijack the other one.

I dont know about this so much in relation to lines - because all the 'lines' we have here are generally mixed...but when I think of civility I think of what one of the guys here calls hate.  He breeds for police departments and he says he wants his dogs to have a little bit of hate in them...some suspicion, rather than be all prey - that kind of the idea I get when I think of civility - its not enough to cause the dog to loose it's clear head...but enough that he or she is always suspicious of his or her surroundings and the people in them.

We have two dogs from the same litter...(I think it is W.German/Belgian Line)...the male is all prey and that female has that bit of civility - I think it has more to do with the dogs disposition.

I do know that the people who prefer sport prefer the prey and the people who prefer work (k9) prefer the civility.

Thats kind of the impression my inexperienced eyes have taken in.

~Cate

I like a balanced dog in both work and sport.

I agree with Don, from what I've seen and the training environments I've worked in I truly believe both is necessary to have a dog in the right frame of mind.

Seeing how some young dogs are worked in more of a civil training environment, I can't help to think that a little more prey work would do them some good.  I notice in this type of training not much effort is put into foundation grip work, they introduce civil/defense so soon that the dogs tend to be more hecktic in their grip and lack comfort, calmness and depth.

I started a good thread about this a while back, check it out: I think Cledford explains it best:

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/bulletins_read/132914.html#133094

I like a GSD with a great deal of confidence, calmness and lack of startle reaction to noise, moderate prey drive, moderate defensive reaction when appropriate, and a high need for territorial dominance (desire to be pack leader or alpha, need to run the show at all times), an easy willingness to fight, ie engage the aggressor when the threat is real, and an unwillingness to ever lose no matter what, obediance to his master, docility around people or other animals that are not a threat.  To me this is the ideal temperament and what Capt. Von Stephanitz promoted.  He loved the docility of his GSDs at the end of the day around his farm animals and friends.

For me, I don't want a dog that would only work in one drive (defense or prey), but to me the civil question is entirely different, and has  to do with will the dog bite someone with no equipment?

I agree with Sue. Again it dempends on someones individual definition of the word. Civil to me is not a drive but an outward expression of a drive. I define it as a willingness to bite without equipment, stemming more from a defensive drive or taking things personal. Some dogs though are willing to bite without equipment through high prey, prey aggression, or they just like to fight. Some high prey drive dogs look at people as big bunny rabbits

LOL. I Like Get A Real Dog's way of putting it!

Sorry - I dont mean civil so much as a drive....I have just heard dogs described as more civil or more prey.  lol, they general way I have understood it was that some dogs are so prey drivey they will bite anything if sent after it...and some have more civility...and are more likely to bite because of that suspicion.

lol - I was just trying to make an outlet for the vom banach thread :p

~Cate