opinions on concrete finish please - Page 1

Greetings Everyone,

I am soon installing some 15x5 dog runs and am looking for opinions on the concrete I need layed.  Does anyone recommend a smooth aposed to a brushed finish.  Or does this really even matter?  I figured a smooth would work well however am looking for anyone that has been there done that any and all considerate comments are appreciated.  as I have heard diffrent opinions from several people already of course none being in the actual business that I would consider having a good idea at what really works best

Thanks in advanced.

You need a lite brush to maintain traction, especially in cold climates when ice builds.  Pay close attention to your slope for drainage.  15 sounds a little long.  I have 5 x 15's.  The leerburg site has good info on the pros and cons of his kennel building.

Kyle

Concrete finishes have pros and cons. As stated slope is important. I suggest an inch per foot for surface drainage. I would install drains too. I run 4" PVC throughout to prevent clogging.

Finish:

Float finish: Too lumpy, water doesn't drain and it absorbs waste. Hard to clean. Squeege will not work.

Heavy Broom: Not any better than float for the same reason only it's abrasive on dogs feet.

Light broom: A true light broom finish will drain and will sweep. It will not squeegee and isn't too hard on dogs feet. I attain a light broom with a trowel machine by floating and doing one finish pass to consolidate the surface before brooming with a fine brush. 80% of the fine broom finishes I see are really heavy broom finishes. Ask to see a sample of their work.

Light trowel finish. This is a granular finish produced with a machine and a second finish pass. It will drain, it's just able to squeege, dense enough that waste does not penetrate as much. Easy on dogs feet without slipping.

Hard trowel finish. Three or more finish passes. Easy to clean, drains easily, squeeges easily, waste doesn't penetrate easily if at all. Slick when wet.

A good sealer after the concrete is finished goes along way to keep the germs away.

At our old house, we had a rough finish (heavy broom) and one of our dogs had bleeding pads because of it in the wintertime. Now, we have a light finish and it is much easier to clean and squeegee. Ice is slick on either finish, but easier to scrape off on a light finish. The only problems we had is that we did not have enough expansion joints in our one kennel and the concrete starting cracking. So besides a slope, enough expansion joints are important as well.

Chris

I guarantee you that if you are not extremely cautious about how you have this done you will have dogs with bleeding pads from anything but a smooth surface. You are much better off to add some sealant with some sand in it to minimize slipping. If you do not seal the runs you will have odor and bacterial problems as well.

The first set of outdoor runs built at this facility were not done to my specification because the contractor thought he knew better. He had to redo and redo and redo, and nothing ever worked to resolve the bleeding pads issue, including sanding the concrete and resealing. So I will have to tear out this concrete pad eventually and have the entire pad redone. For now, it is an expensive area that had to be abandoned.

Having some sort of drainage BETWEEN runs is also critical, as is slope. Most slopes are too conservative. You must also watch where the drainage goes to or that will cause you more headache. The new set of runs I have are perfect, but yes, if there is snow or ice on them, I must be careful. So far a dog has never fallen, but I have certainly slipped.

Good luck.

Correction to my post. Slope should be 1" in 10', not an inch per foot.

Slope is important but i think 1" per foot is very extreme let alone going to be very costly. That would mean slopeing a 6 ft wide pad, and keeping at least 4" of creteat the low point you would have to have 10" at the high end.  If you made it wedge shaped. That would be 43 3/4 yards of concrete. At $100 per yard that would cost you $4,400 for the crete alone, That's no labor in finish or form work nor drainage... It would also look strange when you viewed your kennels from the side.

Even if you put drainage between every 5 FT kennel the look would be off. your slab would definately have a wave look with a 5inch rise and drop in every 5 ft.

The average slope in a driveway is 1/4" per ft. which is sufficent for drainage. If you doubled that and went 1/2 inch per foot you'd have very fast drainage and it would be a better look not to mention easier on the pocket.

As for the surface i've thought of using an epoxy floor on the outside kennels also. it would seal the crete so you wouldn't have worries about bacteria. You could always use a sand or flake additive to the surface to make it less slippery when wet.

Jp76,

My runs outdoors and the kennel runs inside are sloped 3/4 inch per 10 feet. Anything less is not sufficient, in my opinion. Concrete pads are expensive when done well. Don't try to save money here and cut your own throat and have to do it again.

There are cheaper alternatives to epoxies with creates far less hassle putting it down. In all cases, sealants must be put down at a proper temperature or they do not work to seal properly. The actual composition of the concrete is also an issue. Concrete can vary significantly.

All concrete here is sealed and it has worked very well. There are many ways to establish appropriate drainage within and outside runs. It is not about looks, but about the health and smell of the dogs who otherwise will be in urine from the other runs if one is not careful. There is one other thing the poster might consider and that is proximity to and type of cleaning to be done. For healthy dogs, appropriate attention to sanitation is critical. And it is also work.

May I suggest you find some good places to go take a look. It will help you immensely. And there is a lot of engineering literature that can be of help too. Don't just rely on what someone, including me, tells you.

My kennel concrete is 62' x 16' and is a smooth finish.  In the winter, I slip on it for sure, but the dogs also slip on it and that is the really big problem.  I can deal with it, but the dogs in their excitement of me coming to them, or the miniature horse walking past them or whatever,  causes them to jump and stuff, and slip, possibly causing injury.  These are winter problems and for the rest of the year, smooth is very nice.  Keeps their nails trimmed also.  I am in Ohio and if you are in a warm climate year round, diffinitely do a smooth finish.

As with many things in life, there is a good and bad to most things (ice cream tastes great but makes you fat, etc.).  Same with concrete (cement) dog run pads.  Smooth is easier to keep clean, remove poo, etc., but is slippery on bad winter days.  My drainage slope for the 16 foot width is 1/2 inch and seems to work well, although 3/4 inch might have been better, in retrospect.  A lot depends on how good the layer of your concrete is in his work.  Sometimes there can be "puddle" areas if it wasn't done correctly by the person laying it out and smoothing it.  It is recommended in my area that the pad be 3 inches think, but I had it done four inches thick to try and ward off cracking with the seasonal changes.  So far (two years) it has been okay.

LOL DOG1: we posted at the same time. i thought it must have been something like that. because by everything else you stated you seemed to know your stuff about concrete.

JP76: Epoxy floors aren't that expensive any more. It is available in a DO IT YOURSELF kit that comes great.

If you have the know how to finish the crete it doesn't cost that much. a 15'x30' 4inch thick slab cost me $650 without drain. If you can build the forms but don't have the tools and knowledge to finish the concrete you can hire a local cement finisher for around $30 an hour. 8hour day @$30=$240+$650 for crete=you have slab for your runs for under $1,000.