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by gshepherd on 30 January 2008 - 19:01
Maybe someone can help, or send me in the right direction, Im a novice to schutzhund and showing, but not to German Shepherds.
I am on a search for a German Showline with working ability. Not a showline that CAN work, but one that EXCELS. I hate to generalize, but Ive seen showlines working in Schh, as well as working lines, and although Its hard to name the difference, Im sure some of you are familiar with what Im talking about. The working lines that I have seen have that intensity to them, they seem higher energy, they have more pronounced prey drive, etc. Like I said, cant really put my finger on exactly what the difference is.
Well, I know that there has to be some showlines who can REALLY work, just like Im sure there are some workinglines, who can't work. I want to find a high energy, drive, intensity, great working ability.. showline gsd!
Is there any showline breeders with these goals? Any certain dogs known to produce these traits in the showlines? I would be interested in a young adult, prefer female, or a puppy but only if the parents have PROVEN working progeny.
East coast preffered, but not sure how picky I can be in this situation.
Structure is not as important, although I prefer the structure of some of the showlines from the 70-80's/. I would like to show, but neednt be a VA dog.
Thanks in advance.
by Dog1 on 30 January 2008 - 20:01
gshepherd,
There are quite a few conformation line dogs out there that should have enough ability for you to work with. Best bet is to visit the clubs and see for yourself. I would recommend Central PA and the Alpha Training Group on the East Coast. There's some in Ohio, Kentucky, and in the Chicago area. Nevada has some too.
As far as genetics go, I really like to see Quartz or Amigo as well as the Vando. I see a lot of consistency in these dogs. They seem to transition from prey where some others don't. You'll find ability throughout the lines and variations in each litter.
by Kennel von Lotta on 30 January 2008 - 20:01
My first shepherd years ago was like that, and that's what I focus on ever since. We have a litter now from two show line dogs that do excel.
V2 (NASS) Yash von der Bastillie, SchH3, Kkl1, a1/a1 – VA2 Hill vom Farbenspiel (well known to produce great bitework) son
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/426989.html
and
SG1 Quana vom Klausener Grund, SchH1, Kkl1, a1/a1 – VA4 Ando vom Altenberger Land (well known to produce great bitework) granddaughter.
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/473293.html
Here is the link to Yash’s bitework performance at the last Sieger Show:
If it takes too long to download, try it here, but the quality isn’t as good:
I don’t have Quana’s bitework video, but trust me – she is good. She is very fast to the sleeve, bites hard, and loves to work. Once she gets back in shape after her mama duties, I will show her at the Sieger Show (in October).
At just 11 days old these puppy literally run to Quana when she enters the whelping box, and there are quite a few of them that stand out as being VERY feisty. I’m looking for working homes for these guys. They are linebred 5-5 on Cello von der Römerau through Eros.
by hodie on 30 January 2008 - 21:01
In general, I believe it is a mistake to assume dogs from certain bloodlines, be they working or showlines, will have what it takes to be successful in any sport. One must first know what they want to do with the dog and then learn how to properly evaluate a dog for the traits that will assist them in making the grade, whatever that may be. Of course, there are a lot of obstacles on the way. Handlers/owners often do not possess the skiils or time necessary to be successful. Not all helpers are competent and far too many only know one way to work and are unwilling to try anything new, even if it hits them in the face.
Look at the individual dog or pup. That is my advice. I have both working and showline and out of all of them, some from each (and outstanding bloodlines) who can work well in Schutzhund, and others who are not suitable (also from outstanding bloodlines), but who will make excellent pets.
Learning all you can now will prevent the all too common mismatch.
Good luck.
by orkies on 30 January 2008 - 21:01
1 Jimmy von Arminius 2000 3 times SchH3 IP3 FH RH KKL1a
Hips 'a' Normal
Elbows Normal
V77 - 2007 German Sieger Show
IP3 98-90-92=280
SchH3 98-94-94=286
Qualified LGA 2006
Formerly owned by Jakob Meyer
located at: http://www.vonschneidenfels.com
by Mystere on 30 January 2008 - 21:01
Hodie is correct.
My addition would be that if you are really interested in obtaining a showline dog with excellent working abilities and temperament, you need to find a BREEDER who is WORKING, TRAINING AND TITLING the dogs they breed. If the breeder is not getting his or her heinie out on the trial field, they don't deal with working ability and (generally) consequently know little or nothing about working ability. Louise Penery is an example--she got herself out there and worked the dog. Her male made a rep for himself as a showline dog that really had working ability. A lot of it is simply genetics.
However, training is also a significant factor. There may be many showline dogs out there with very good working ability. But, nobody ever addressed it, or cared much about it, so they did not receive the training they needed for those abilities to be developed. You can have the physical potential to be the greatest figue skater that ever did a quadruple -triple loop or a back-flip, but if no-one ever even taught you how to skate, those genetics will do you no good. 
Find some breeder who is using and working the genetics.
JMHO
by SchHBabe on 30 January 2008 - 21:01
Some good points. I've heard some folks say that many show dogs would do better on the field if their handlers would train with the same intensity as the working dog camp. Is it the dog? Or the handler? How to distinguish the shortcomings of the team as a whole? You can imagine the difference in performance if a handler is training for power and panache instead of 70-70-80 give me a title so I can show and breed.
I have seen a few nice dogs out of Richard and Melody Greba's kennel. They score well in conformation as well as earn a pronounced courage score. However, their dogs are not the fluffy roach backed deep red type, so I can only guess if they are sufficiently "showline" for your taste. That's your call.
Yvette
by SKI on 30 January 2008 - 21:01
Randy Tyson in Ca. Breeds, trains and titles her dogs herself.
Does Police K9s (street, bomb, narc), imports in working dogs. Works, traines and breeds working dogs.
Walks the talk..... Actually, does not talk, DOES>>>>>>>>
by Kennel von Lotta on 30 January 2008 - 21:01
orkies, the link to the website where Jimmy resides now does not work. Can you check the spelling? He looks awesome, and I love Wallace (his father), and his mother has very interesting bloodlines too - I'm very interested to know where he is located.
by hodie on 30 January 2008 - 21:01
Just as a follow up, I have some excellent show line dogs, one of whom is a SchH 3 female and is outstanding in the work. I have several others who are too. I also have one working line female who is outstanding. The limits on these dogs are those of having me as a handler. I am getting old!
The suggestions to go to show breeders who DO IT, is a great one and should not be ignored. Simply buying titled dogs, or sending dogs for the quickie type titling so often done in Europe is not going to give the breeder a very good understanding of temperaments and which dogs really will have what it takes.
Good luck.
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