Old Style tracking - Page 1

How did they track back in the early days of schutzhund when it was a breed suvey and not a sport?

After reading the other thread about footstep tracking the "sport" schutzhund tracking seems much less practical than even the akc tracking.

Are the breeders really testing their dogs by doing the sport schutzhund titles if the style of schutzhund tracking has changed?  Are they selling a good sport dog or GSD?

If the tracking has changed what else has?  Is it still a good breed test?

I have often wondered after laying a track how this type of tracking would be so important to a breed survey. 

Schutzhund never was a "breed survey".  A dog must be titled in order to obtain a breed survey, then and now.  Tracking is just an obedience exercize, all dogs can track.   Footstep training is a method of training, not a trick, there is no food on the track in a trial.

Forgot to add dogs trained in this method can go on to obtain FH & FH2 titles which are part of schutzhund and difficult.

Sorry...new to the schutzhund thing...survey was the wrong word.

I was told to breed the dog had to have at least a sch1 so I assumed this was some type of test for breeding.  

So the titles dont mean that much when it comes to breeding

I met a guy who trained in schutzhund in Poland 30 years ago...and it sounded like the style of tracking was very different than it is today.  He was explaining to me how to track on sidewalks and through the city....then how to get the dog to identify the person who laid the track at the end.  I told him it sounds much different than what we do today.  He also trained in Germany so It must not have been something that was just done in his country..

I would still like to hear from experienced people with some knowleldg of schuthzund history.

Ravenwalker:  The schutzhund 1, schutz 2  and schutz3   tracks are all laid differently        2 and 3 are very intriguit rules and yes the tract can go over a road over a fence or what evert the track layer wants to go or do......turns and articles and is quite difficult.....1,000 yard track   with cross tracts, a car   a truc, a bykc, and all terrains.....wind , snow  , are all factors also..,  m

The track is 30 minutes odl    one hour old and  most schutzhund people  train for the rules of sCHUTZ 3   and then they have it down pat......a dog may sit on it , down on it or stand on it...you have to advise the judge which one you are doing....the skill of finding the articles is quite different from  tracking...the sceny discrimination has to kick in and the dog has to determine if he comes upon something in the trial on the tract that doesnt belong there..he must determine whether or not it has been touched by the tracklayer.... in schutz 1 and 2   there are  2 articles left on the track,,,,

In schutz 3 there are three articles laid...    the dog has to have intricuit training on the turns,,,,one left   two right   and the dog has to be prepared for whatever comes up....

Schutz 2 and 3, the track is laid by a track layer and the handler has very little knowledge where the track is going...   Tracking in wind  tends to make the dog late  on his turns  so  it is important to teach the dog to footstep track , relying upon track sent rather than air scent.... When the wind blows  it makes the dog instinctively want to air scent  , so you have to work hard to make sure the dog follows thru with the footstep track.....this is why it is so important to begin correctly...

Here on this site , Ive never seen anyone completely tell how to lay a 2   and a 3 and draw the pattern....there are probably 5 threads full of how to   ...on the Schutz 2 and 3  track laying and how to train for it....

You ask about breed survey....that is done seperately after you earn your titles....

In the tracking part of schutzhund, if you fail your tracking , it is done seperatly now , use to be a part of the whole package...tRACKING IS  just like the other two phases in Schutzhund trial, it is not just a competitive training event ,

it is  an examination of character.  On the day of the trial,  , before it is allowed to track, each dog is examined  by the judge for its nervous stability. The animal must be steady, neither timid, nor inappropriately aggressive. It may be friendly, or it may not, but above all it must not be unreliable or dangerous.

In addition , completely apart frim the temperament test, b watching the dog on the tracking field an astute judge can evaluate the dogs nerves and  its bone with its handler, as well as its desire to work independently. He can gauge the animals confidence in itself and its work, its ability to concentrate and , very importantly, its drive to perform the tasks..It is during the tracking phase that the judge forms an initial opinion about the quality of the dog as well as the value of the training it has been given bby the handler.

Schutahund 3 tack is 800 - 1000 paces, with at least four turns and is at least  50 minutes old..    to get an FH   Advanced Tracking title.....dog has to be at least 16 mos old,  have a Schuz 1 title or proof of a Traffic Proof  Companion Dog title(VB)

track laid by a stranger,   at least 1,000 paces long and   3 hours old.. has a minimum of  6 turns and has at least  3 places where another stranger ;s track crosses  the original track...and  4 articles are placed on this track.to either point or pick up.

As in SCh1, 2,3 , you may or  may not work your dog with a lomg line...        4 points -faulty start     7 points--missing an article         4 points----indicating a wrong article... You have to earn  at least 70 out of 100 points to pass the sch test...

If you go to Europe to trial ,,they are tough track layers and the terrain is very tricky and they do it intentional...they lay a very tough track....some of the tracklayer here   especially    schutz 3 and Fh , do also...it is a lot of months of constant training and reading  Susan Barwig and Ivan Balvanof books , over and over and over ,,,,,,and hours and hours of relaying , and relaying tracks,,,restarting , restarting and  layiong two to three tracts each session and correcting and praising your dog....

It is   Old sTYLE AS IT CAN BE....STILL DONE THE SAME WAY...  THERE ARE SOME NEW TRICKS SOME OF THE TRAINERS USE THAT I WAS NEVER TAUGHT......

BUT BASICALLY THE STEPS TO IT  AND THE GOALS AND CONCEPTS ,  ARE ALLTHE SAME.....ITS WRITTEN ON PAPER AND YOU GET PLENTY OF INSTRUCTIONS AND BOOKLETS TO SHOW YOU HOW THE PATTERNS GO... i HAVE THE DIAGRAMS HERE ,,i WILL SEE IF i CAN COPY IT TO MY COMPUTOR AND LOAD IT ON THE NEXT MESSAGE SPACE....

ASK ANY QUESTIONS YOU WANT  ,,,LOTS OF THINGS TO SAY AND COVER IN TRACKING ,,,,,ITS FUN AND I HAVE OR HAD ,,,A FEMALE THAT WAS SUPER,,,HOPING THE MAN THAT BOUGHT HER  FOUR MONTHS AGO WILL PUT HER TITLE ON HER....????????

Thanks for the in depth reply!

BOND WITH ITS HANDLER.......SP...

 HERE ARE THE PATTERNS   IF YOU KNOW HOW TO ENLARGE OR GET A MAGNIFYING GLASS YOU CAN READ THE PRINT....THE LAST DIAGRAHM IS FOR THE SCHUTZ    3   AND THE TOP LEFT IS SCHUT  1    AND THE LINE ON THE LEFT FROM THE BLACK DOT UPWARD SHOULD CONNECT    ITS DIM ,,,,,BUT A LINE DOES EXIST....