trainer's techniques - Page 1

Without actually knowing the temperament of the dog it is not always easy to suggest what training style does and does not work with a given dog. However, in general, I believe what you are describing for a 5 month old pup is extremely inappropriate. Will it cause the dog to become fearful and cowardly? Perhaps not, but perhaps it will. This depends, in large measure on the temperament of the dog. However, if the man has only tried these kinds of techniques on a pup he has only had for three days, I consider his tactics inappropriate. And frankly, I would worry about what he does with the dog when you are not in attendance.

I train dogs for a living. These are not appropriate techniques in a young pup. You are free to do as you please, but my advice would be to remove the dog and let some of us try to help you find a competent trainer. Just to make it clear, there ARE times when corrections is appropriate and even times when some compulsion might be used, but not in a young pup, and not in a dog who has been with the trainer three days.

My question to you would be how did you choose this person? He is certainly not someone I would take a dog to or recommend, based on what you have written here.

Is this just obedience training?   It sounds all wrong to me.  You really should do a little reading on training and educate yourself to different techniques.  Some training does cause discomfort and even some pain in measured amounts but there are all kinds of trainers. I agree this doesnt sound right for only a third day into whatever this is.  Stepping on back feet is used sometimes for the jumping up, but not an arm twisting.  One might even put a well placed knee to the chest of the dog to discourage jumping up on people.  I would suggest visiting again right away and maybe address some of your concerns with your trainer.  See what his reaction is, that may decide this issue for you right then and there.   It isnt all that hard to obedience train your own dog with the right information.  I dont use plastic base ball bats either, or a short leash at the begining of obedience.    If I were you I'd get all the knowledge I could now and not let to much time go by.  Get your husband educated as well as yourself.

JMO

railroadwd,

I've had time to re-think my original post.   GO GET YOUR DOG!  

Find a new trainer with references, real people not letters.  Or train her yourself.  There are alot of good books on the subject.

Brent.

yes get your dog out of there. he's pushing 75? that would have been my first clue. i would have watched him train some others first. he's probably stuck in the old school training that was total compulsion. compulsion is a tool that is used as a correction only after a dog has learned what he is supposed to do and decides he's not going to listen. then you give a correction. this guy could not have taught your pup enough in 3 days for compulsion to be used at this point. get your pup back and find a better trainer before your dog is ruined. he may be able to train your dog and get him to do what he is told but you will have a dog doing it out of fear and not a happy working animal.

If you are not comfortable with the training, cancel it and go pick up your dog.  Hopefully he will refund the balance of your money. 

molly

go get your dog  asap....do not tell the man you are coming to get him....when you get there.....ask can you have your dogs leash and spend a few minutes with your pup...take pups aside   check him for any scars , broken skin or bones....if any thing found  make a notice to him at that time.....hope you do not find anything other than a normal pup intact....take the pups to your car...put him in......take husband and wife....if your husband wont do this  please tell him this is not the right or humane way to treat a   5 month old pup...this is compulsive training for a dog that is 3rd level and has problems...not a baby.....

tell him you do not agree with his methods...Thank him for returning your pup and you do not deem the kind of training to be necessary for his age....and you would like a percentage of your money refunded.......

leave with your pup....write him a letter when you return asking for your partial refund...

be thankful you discovered this...

Actually this is not even humane for a level three.....Ive seen so cruel things done in training,,,even compulsive ....worst being a part of a dogs ear taken off while force training and this dog went to nationals.....so never surprises me what kind of instruments get used on a dog in training...but not gonna happen on mine.....

Baseball bats and trying to bend paws back to cause dog pain is not any method I care to use......

 First off, "Go Get Your Dog", Today.

10 years ago when I got my first GSD, Shelby, and she started moving from puppy to adolescence, I realized I had to start to learn how to train this dog.  I wanted to kill her, not figuratively but literally.  She was a pain in the a**, or so II thought.  Actually she was a 5 month old pup with no training who had an owner who didn't have a clue (that would be me)  I tried the local Community College obedience class which consisted of the standard "Get a Choke Collar or Prong" and the lady who was teaching meant well, but the class basically was just  showing me how to correct behaviors with the collar. Want the dog to sit, pull up on the collar,  want the dog to down, pull down on the collar, most of you know what I mean.  Well after a couple of weeks I knew one thing, I wasn't having fun and Shelby wasn't having fun.  What I did notice was that before class I would take her to a nearby field and throw the frisby for her to burn off some of the never ending supply of energy this dog has, and during this time she would gladly do anything I asked THAT she KNEW how to do.  That night at class I asked the Trainer if I could just use the Frisbee with her.  To the trainers credit she said to use what ever worked.  We ran through all the excersises that night with the leash dragging behind her, and her ears up and alert.  I soon found another local trainer and began a wonderful 10 years with my dog that continues today.

Some important things to remember when training that I've learned.

The dog ALWAYS has a choice.  Whether you use positive or compulsion, the dog always has a choice, they can choose to do what I ask because all good things come from me and that when I do what the biped asks me to do, great things happen for dogs, or in the case of compulsion training they can do what is asked of them to avoid pain.  But the dog does have a choice.

Call me a wuss for using primarily positive means for my dogs, that's okay, and you won't hear me say that compulsion training doesn't work, obviously it does.  But my dogs and I are happier with a ball and a bag of treats and a pet on the head.

I could talk about this for hours but my new 5 month old puppy is laying quietly at my feet waiting for breakfast and a quick five minute lesson on doggie zen......

The fact that he let you visit on day 3 set off bells in my head right away. When a dog is sent away for training, it is emotionally easier on the dog to just not see you. The confusion and excitement of going home turns into depression when you leave yet again.  He clearly does not understand/care for her emotions.

Now, I am all for a balance of discipline and reward. I train dogs for a living, and I train dogs that are sent away for "boot camp" type" program.  However it is not enough to just start physically punishing the dog and expect it to understand. you must 1.) teach the appropriate behavior so you can involve something positive. (for example jumping up- the dog sits instead of jumping up "Good dog!") 2.) The dog must understand the concept of reprimand, and what the reprimand itself means, and how to react properly to avoid it.

A baseball bat for sit?! Now granted, with a plastic bat I doubt he's hurting her, but he's at the very least startling her into listening. The appropriate behavior should never be achieved through fear, but rather desire to please.

As a dog trainer and GSD lover, I know damn well rule #1 of training someone else's GSD is be it's friend first.  These dogs bond very tightly to their owners and if you step in and start busting their chops, they will shut down, be miserable, and never forget you were unfair to them. They may listen, eventually, but they'll hate obedience, and also : If you do not treat her the same way when she gets home, which of course you should not, none of this training will stick and you have wasted your money anyway.

Show your husband this thread and go pick up your girl right away. Research your next trainer more thoroughly.