One Step Forward and Ten Steps Back - Page 1

 

One Step Forward and Ten Steps Back
 
The subject title describes my frustration. One year ago or so, I began the search for a GSD breeder and I feel like I have gotten nowhere. In fact, I feel like I am walking in a mine field (sigh). I will begin by telling you that we have two different breeds in mind - a GSD and a Belgian Shepherd. The new puppy will be for my husband as I, the Lord willing, plan to get another male Alaskan Malamute a bit further down the road. The search for a Belgian Shepherd breeder was pretty much a straightforward one but then I began to research the GSD. Wow, I had no idea what was in store for me.
 
When I was a kid, the whole family would pile into the car and we would drive for a couple of hours to get to my grandparents farm. My uncle who lived there as well had his GSD and a Pomeranian. The GSD was a black and tan, a typical shepherd of the 1960’s. I can’t remember the dog’s name but his job was to guard the farm and to fetch firewood for Grandma’s woodstove which happened to be the only stove. The dog was well known for stealing bottles of milk off of people’s porches and freshly baked, cooled pies off of window sills. Whenever somebody had something that went a missing, people knew who to call LOL.
 
I began my search for a GSD breeder and I expected to find a breeder that bred dogs that were similar to the ones I saw when I was a kid. I was shocked at what I was finding online. One of the first GSD sites I visited led me to what I now know as a “working line” site. Oh my gosh. I had to look at the pictures of those dogs 3 or 4 times and I still couldn’t believe that those were GSD’S. Then eventually I happened upon a Canadian American showline breeder’s site. Now, I am in total disbelief. Further in my www travels I of course find a West German showline/highline (?) site. Up until that time, I had never seen the likes of any of these types of dogs which seriously left me thinking, “What happened to that GSD I saw on the farm”, surely a breed of dog couldn’t have possibly changed that much?”
 
Con’t

 

I am a Northern breed type of gal and I have had 1 Samoyed and 2 Alaskan Malamutes over the span of 23 years. These dogs are quite predictable and consistent in type, confirmation and temperament – what you seen way back when is what you pretty much see now. The Belgian Shepherd seems to follow along those same lines of consistency as well or at least in my humble opinion. If you envision a Samoyed, a Malamute and a Belgian Shepherd (all four types) in your mind, you will pretty much see the same type of dog worldwide but unfortunately the same cannot be said for the GSD. There are some extreme and strange looking GSD’S out there.
 
Enough about that. Now on to the type of dog I want. As I said, this dog will be for my husband. DH would like a hiking partner. Hiking up here in the mountains can be very taxing so the dog will need to be structurally and mentally sound as well as biddable and healthy. I would like to do obedience with the dog, my husband is considering agility later on (there are many groups out here who herd sheep – ya never know LOL). Would like a dog with proper GSD temperament, low prey drive (the cat thinks that would be best) with a medium drive.
 
An example of the type of GSD we are seeking (sorry don’t know how to make these links clickable)
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/1013011525000183141gVqWmuvalk
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/1013011020000183141KbxeyOasCF
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2547564500062619317mtrMHO
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2322223060062619317UqCuzj
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2400056090062619317gxjtbU
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2602754920088481986ztkVTj
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2650517770101249683lBMcIZ
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2584981020088481986zxfFkm
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2419227290101482803JXOWaY
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2432492620088481986ZPlzyw
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2324187710015408938FnPACc
 
We would like a natural looking dog, one without extremes. A dog who is proportional that possesses nice thick pads with tight feet attached to good pasterns. Did I mention good feet? Easty/Westy and cowhockedness (is that a word) are far too prevalent IMO. Narrow fronts (on the rare occasion that the fronts are even shown) and straight shoul

Sorry about that

 

shoulders are also a problem along with lack of bone. I stand to be corrected as I am in no way an expert; these are only my opinions along with some others that I’m going to leave alone.
 
We don’t want a dog that walks or runs funny. Long stock coat is preferable as I like a more substantial looking dog – the coats seem to have more bone and better structure. Since the dog will be going hiking with my DH with the possibility of agility later on, we would like a dog of proper (standard) size. DH would like a female weighing in at around 60 lbs give or take. We do not want a dog from “working lines”/ DDR, Czech.
 
Con’t

 

 

Now for the breeder: We do not desire to purchase our puppy from a commercial breeder or a puppy mill. A properly socialized puppy is a must. We do not desire to finance someone’s sport or decision to send their females to Germany to be bred – we are not interested in “World Class”, “Famous Bloodlines, or “Top German” pedigreed puppies that sell for $1500 to $7000.00 and up. The breeder for us would be one who has a passion for the breed (a breeder who genuinely has the GSD’S best interests at heart) one who is not influenced or swayed by the almighty dollar. Would like a breeder who is honest and open about his/her breeding stock and not afraid but willing to discuss health concerns or problems in his/her line. A breeder that breeds towards longevity, health and proper temperament and stands behind and believes in the dogs he/she is producing would be great. The breeder we are looking for would do more than the required bare minimum of hips and elbows as many, many breeders of other breeds already commonly do. I believe from experience, that a puppy that stays with its litter/mother longer ends up having a better chance at being mentally well adjusted and more stable as an adult so we would like to bring puppy home at 11 to 12 weeks of age. Don’t know if any GSD breeders out there would agree with that one but it’s non-negotiable on our part.
 
Con’t

 

My reason for choosing the GSD is simply “The Alaskan Malamute”. The Mal has a special depth of character. The Alaskan Malamute in my humble opinion is a dog that carries with it a special wisdom it seems; it is a regal and majestic breed that I greatly respect and admire. A well bred Mal is a whip smart confident dog that has a great head on his shoulders; this breed thinks. You might find this stupid or crazy but when I look into a GSD’s eyes there is just something there that strikes me as familiar you know. I have a feeling that the GSD is quite similar to the mighty Alaskan Malamute – yes, I did say mighty LOL. I make no apologies for my braggin on the breed, I am simply smitten and hope to have another one day soon. Hopefully one day in the not too distant future, we will be bragging about our very own GSD!
 
I realize this is a long post but it is the result of a 1 year search. I don’t think it should be this hard or frustrating for people to find a well bred, healthy GSD. I realize that this is a breed that has only been around for 100 years so, maybe all of this is because the GSD is still a breed that is in development, I don’t know. One thing I do know is that presently, there is much that does afflict this wonderful breed (sigh).
 
The GSD is our first choice and in the event that we cannot find the right breeder we will be going ahead with the crazy and energetic, funlovin Belgian Shepherd (Groenendael), the black dog as there are good ones out there…. It’s the same old story - it’s just a matter of finding the right breeder.
 
Our Alaskan Malamute, Utah who was14 years of age, passed away just 4 ½ months ago, and that is something that we desire to be repeated in every dog that comes to live with us. The dogs become family and we just want to keep them around as long as possible. Well, hope to have some positive leads on some great GSD breeders. We would be interested in a female puppy out of a spring, summer or perhaps an autumn litter. Thank you for reading.
 
Penny
British Columbia, Canada
 

Tez, I sympathize with you. The GSD has changed considerably over the last 40 years, as this site here shows: http://www.asuperiorgsd.com/p2p.html

It is very hard to find a GSD that resembles the ones you and I remember. People will tell you the ones you see now are better dogs, but I cringe when I see some of them walking on their hocks, and looking like they'd fall over if asked to jump a fence.

The dogs you show in your pictures: where did they come from? They're GORGEOUS!. Beautiful heads and expressions, nice, straight toplines, with the withers as the highest point, the way they SHOULD be...VERY  VERY nice!

Good luck in your search!

Penny, it sounds like you have some romatic childhood image of what a shepherd should be.

I agree Canadian/American showlines have turned into overangulated/fine bone/weak pasterns dogs but the German Showlines and Working Lines (primariiy West German and Czech/DDR)  perhaps if you met in person would realize most look like NORMAL dogs and many have fine structure.  (The sway backs in some of the dogs you posted are unacceptable )

Rather than searching the web and seeing the dogs in stacked poses, why don't you go out to a schutzhund club or a herding group and actually meet some of the dogs in motion and standing around.  You may be surprised.

Your negative comments on breeders.  Wow!  Most of the people I have talked with doing this are not breeding to finance their sport or go laughing to the bank.  They are serously committed to the breed so I don't know who you have been talking with to come to that opinion.  By your descriptions it appears you are looking at advertisements and many good breeders have web pages but don't put ads on the ad sites (including here) and are going to be every bit as skeptical of homes for their puppies as you are of them.  You tend to  find lower prices on a working line puppy than a showline.

FWIW, I own a Czech/DDR dog and hands down he is the best dog (he is my 5th GSD) I have ever owned - VERY physcially fit, very confident, very healthy, very good dog....He is also quite handsome.  He would possibly be a bit too much of a dog for someone who has never owned a GSD, but a good breeder will place an appropriate puppy into the right home.  

I have known a few Malamutes and don't think (other than wolf-like appearance) there are ANY similarities between the two breeds.   

 

SWAYBACKS??? [splurts coffee on screen]  Nancy, were you looking at the same pictures as me? Have we become SO used to the German standard, with a slight, and sometimes not-so-slight upward curve to the back that we see everything else as being swaybacked? (I'm avoiding the term 'roach' as there seems to be some disagreement over what constitutes a roach. To some of us, it's any back where the withers are not the highest point. To others, it's something different.)

You want to se a REAL swayback? Go here, and look at the picture of  Daphne's Xanadu: http://www.rintintin.com/compare.html  (second from top, on the right.) That's what I call swayback!

 

i'd like a vette for a $1,000.00 but let's get real. you have a lot of demands but want to pay newspaper prices. you want the stereotypical GSD look from the rin tin tin era. fine great look but you have the wrong idea that the look is the "original" look. the black, sable and bi-color were also original colors. while i'll agree that the "show" look has been changed through selective breeding for type (like so many other AKC breeds) i don't care for it myself but you state that you don't want a "working" line. unfortunately structurally they are going to be more like your uncles GSD. while there aren't many of the saddles in the working lines there are some that look like a few in your pics. having more of the black on the back than a true saddle. you also need to do more research into "drives" as well. you want to do obediance with the dog, maybe agility and possibly herding because of your neighbors. but you don't want a "working line"?????

i'm glad you like your malamute, but you'll see that as a breed the GSD is a much better obedience animal.

 

sorry, perhaps a $500 malamute is a better fit for you. because $1500 is going to be pretty standard for a quality GSD from a good line.

I am not fond of the roach back and know it exists but think a lot of what you are seeing is based on stack pictures and many of these dogs look "normal" if you pose them like they were posed in the 60s.  The showlines of all types have changed radically but the working line dogs have held fairly constant because the imporantance is of a sound working structure AND temperament.

I have a personal preference for working line dogs and you don't see much of that there.

Here is the father of one of my dogs - not a V rated dog but I think quite handsome.  Please what is ugly about this dog?  He is not a V rated show dog, btw.  I chose him since you find the Czech dogs ugly.  There are plenty of nice West German Working Lines Dogs, but like the original GSDs they were bred to work hard all day and bore if just laying around the house all day.  I believe This dog is a legitimate working dog in the Netherlands.  He is just one example there are many.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/125115.html