Mixing of Working and Show Lines to Improve the Breed - Page 1

Just noticed this add by famous Haus Dexel: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/classifieds/47926.html Yea!!! Wishing more breeders would ignore popular, politically correct breedings (VA to VA) and select the best parents and breedings based knowledge of the lines and on pedigrees going back many generations. And breed new generations of the best of the working and show lines in terms of temperament (sociability, self-confidence and guideablility), workability (problem solving, toughness) and conformation (physical functionality and breed standard as opposed to over-angulation, flashy side gait, etc.). Then do this over several generations to establish the type. This is where the future of a strong and stable German Shepherd lies. At this time it is indeed not an easy row to hoe. It requires true dedication to the breed itself and a very thick skin. But this and only this will ensure the best future for our breed. Many, I have heard say, have this as their breeding goal, but very few really practice this and I sure would like to know who they are and what the results show. (And please don't tell me about show breeders who claim they do this just because some of their dogs look good in the protection test at a Sieger Show after 100 practices, and they can show Mutz somewhere back in their pedigrees. I mean give me a break with that BS. I've heard all that before). Breeders who are truly doing this are doing it behind the scenes at this time and there sure is no profit in it. If more truly dedicated breeders did this, and trialed and showed the offsping (over generations), then finaly the judges might wake up and start selecting for the whole dog. Incidentally, I have seen more working line breeders doing this than showline--seeking to breed KK1 parents who meet the conformation standard but who have proven themselves in the work (SchH or herding).

Wanderer, the first three breedings offered are all showlines. If you check, one of the dams is my dog Gina. You can find her on my homepage under "females". But I can tell you that this litter by Mex Aurelius turned out really nice, all 11 of them. The fourth one is advertised for a different kennel. This breeding took place during the Sieger Show. But you are right, a lot of breeders in Germany are trying to mix lines. There is the L-litter "von Arlett" for example. The sad thing in my opinion is that it is only the showline breeders who try to mix, hardly ever the workingline breeders. Chris

my ? is why would the working line breeders need to mix in the show blood? the drives and working ability is already there. the TRUE conformation is also already there. if you breed 2 sch titled working line dogs together that are both KKL1 aren't they getting the best of both worlds? working ablility and conformation? seems to me that it is just the showline that would be better for the mix. jmho.

ramgsd, it all depends what the interpretation of the best of both worlds is for you or anybody else. A lot of the workingline dogs are so ugly that they do not have much in common with the standard anymore. I would agree with you if the workingline breeders start to breed only with dogs which have a V-rating in conformation and a KKL1 rating, not a 2. If you do that consistently for a few generations, when and only when, can we talk about not needing dogs for the conformation aspect anymore. Finding nice conformation in workinglines is still more luck than consistency. On the other hand, yes, a lot of showlines need to have more workability. Not drives, but nerves! Therefore, breeders of both need to look at the other side. Chris

But if a working dog can work until it is retired and hold up while working, then does it not have correct conformation?

ramgsd: As much as I love the working lines, there is for sure, always room for improvement. I think our dogs have a tendancy to be too steep/short in the croup & straight in the shoulder for example. I believe that yes, our workingline dogs are built to handle the sport of schutzhund, they have excellent agility and are capable of great bursts of speed, but is a dog that is built like this capable of tending sheep, or something that would require a lot of endurance? .........I think "ugly" is a little harsh, my friend!

I would consider myself a working dog person as I prefer working lines. However, my foundation female was a mix of working and show lines. She had a very sucessful working career being a few times SchH3, IPO3, SG Kkl2, several AKC titles/certificates but more importantly she was very sucessful for me in the whelping box. Bred to working line males she produced several working dogs (police, SchH, service work, etc..) including her SchH2 daughter that I am working now. The daughter was bred last year and also produced very nicely with pups working in police work, SAR and SchH. The male I bred her dog was 3/4 working 1/4 show. I have seen quite a few working line dogs who have a little show lines behind them as well.

I've found the so-called 'ugly' dogs the ones closest to the foundation of the breed. If that doesn't show the standard for beauty in this breed, I don't know what does.

so SILLBERSEE tell why i would want to take my V rated SCH3 KKL1 to one of these low drive, bannanna backed (not even close to the original standard) show champ females? what will i gain? but if i take him to a SCH3 KKL1 working female i have a great chance of keeping the great working ability, drives and looks and losing nothing. so again why should i bother watering down my dogs? you stated: A lot of the workingline dogs are so ugly that they do not have much in common with the standard anymore. i'd really like for you to show me the working WUSV world champ you think is ugly.

Silbersee, You just bought a working line female after originally breeding showlines. For curiosity sake, what made you want a working line?