sport puppy and litter evaluation - Page 1

I would like to have a discussion about choosing a puppy for sport. What do you look for when evaluating your litters? Have you ever evaluated a puppy that scores well and seems like he would be an ideal working candidate turn around and only make a good pet? What about one that seemed to fit a pet score turning out to make a good working dog?

100 views and no responses?

I have not bred that many litters but over the years have seen many many dogs that friends have owned and bred. The short answer to you questions are yes and yes. Puppy tests are not science and most of them out there are not really designed to test and look for working traits. They at best test response to stimuli, new situations, maybe recoverability and probably some retrieve or prey drive. Good candidates can fail for a number of reasons including lack of proper development by the owner, growing into a physical problem that impairs the work, bad training etc etc. Another dog might be a "sleeper" that one day wakes up and you have a dynamo on your hands. IMHO I think we ask much to much of our young dogs and do not give them proper time to grow up. The ones that get that time tend to be these "sleepers". They have to develop discrimination and thinking ability and confidence and a whole bunch of things. To quote a friend what you get for your money with an 8 week old is "puppy breath" and hopefully some potential. Anyone who tells you they can guarantee a dog will be this or that if full of bs and we need to start getting that message heard and understood. A puppy is not a toaster and can not ans should not be guaranteed like a toaster. Your best bet to find a dog with potential you can develop is to find a breeder who knows what they are doing, has been doing it for awhile, had a proven track record (look at actual provable accomplishments not "claimed" ones). They probably are also successful H.O.T. competitors so they know what it takes to develop a young dog successfully. This kind of breeder can tell you more about the potential a puppy from their lines has than any puppy test will ever tell you because they have watched them grow and play and develop since day 1 and probably have done the same with their dam and granddam and great grand dam. That's the kind of breeder you need to find. Hope this helps. I'm sure some other folks will pipe up now.

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My experience shows me that puppies can be quite very different. The assessment of parents and grandparents is crucial in this case from my view. One will find a part of it in each puppy of a litter. Independently of which the puppy shows in the age of 8 weeks. It is actually like that: a puppy "awakes" in former times, another later. The basis is however the hereditary property. Behaviors are left, good and also bad. If e.g. both parents animals a very high temper have are it very improbably that the puppies are sleep caps. High temper and nervousness are two different things. If one wants to judge puppies at the age of 8 weeks, one should absolutely regard the conditions, on which they grow up. Puppies in a family react differently than puppies, which are held only in the kennel. If puppies have very good parents, those to play and show a very good temper - that does not have to mean that the puppies also do this at the age of 8 weeks BECAUSE if the puppies do not have an opportunity to play (the mother is not with them, no toy ect.), cannot her playing also learn. On the other hand can exactly this puppy also later ( up to 16. week ) playing learn with the new owner, if this is occupied very intensively. To that extent it is very difficult to judge and say all characteristics of a puppy in the age from 8 weeks to: this is for the protection service, that one is not good not for the sport. No honest breeder can take over warranties for nothing. If I read that a breeder offers a warranty, I believe nothing at all more to this breeder. There is organisms - our dogs - and those change, adapt, react and act in their kind as a dog.

....in addition comes still: Puppies live in a certain ranking among themselves in the first 8 weeks. It can quite be that one of the puppies "suppresses" becomes - exactly this puppy however later one very much, very good protection service carries out - BECAUSE it had itself to learn it to intersperse. Another puppy was dominant of beginning - exactly this puppy had it easily, had not to fight... and no protection service will therefore later make... From my view it depends very difficulty with 8 weeks to decide - too many possibilities on to many different other possibilities. Reliable is only the descent - parents, grandparents, great-grandparents.. and more. Which one from it makes is another thing.

Senta I agree with your post to an extent. Looking at parents is a good start, but does not tell us 100% what we will recieve. I agree that you have a better chance of reproducing qualities from dogs that possess said qualities. The problem is that not all dogs reproduce themselves. If they did, breeding would be the easiest thing to do. I think that you can get a very good reading on a puppy at 7 weeks if you know what you are looking at. You need to do the tests that everyone is talking about and also test the dogs drives. These "tests" show us nerve, dominance, trainability, and other tempermental issues. For sport they also have to have excellent drives. When I go look at a litter, I want to see puppies that have excellent prey drive. I want them to go after the rag like a bat out of hell. They need to have a nice calm and full grip once they obtain the rag. I want to see them carry the rag around and when called, I want to see little hesitation to bring the tug back. When on the tug, I would like to see a good amount of fight drive. I don't want a puppy that latches on and goes for the ride. It is almost like fishing with dead fish. I like a good fight. Some people may disagree. Some like a dead weight on the sleeve. If you go to a good breeder, you will get what you ask for. They should know everything about their litter. They have been with these pups from day one and should be evaluating them, always. They should know and want to place their pupps in the proper homes. I wouldn't want to put the pup most suited to reach the podium in a pet home, and I wouldn't want to put the least driven pet into a working home. It just wouldn't do the buyers or the kennel reputation any good.

@DeKal: "They need to have ..... and full grip once they obtain the rag." " I want to see little hesitation to bring the tug back." "I would like to see a good amount of fight drive." That means "high-school" for puppies in the age of 7 weeks ??? Could it be - I misunderstand that ???

I think, who behavior of parents left, dependent on a good breed selection. It is naturally not simple, and it is not sufficient to know parents only by descent/papers but one should know the parents and possibly grandparents "personally" - in behavior of the sport, of exhibitions, of the protection service, of family and so on. Several generations to know can round the picture off of the puppy. It remains one nevertheless much, very difficult thing to make straight with 7 or 8 weeks a forecast.... that would be like Horoskop to read.

Senta What does "high-school" for puppies mean? Are you saying that the litters you produce or looked at don't have dogs that you can lift off the ground with a tug in it's mouth at 7 weeks? I hate to break it to you, but grips are genetic. A dog with a geneticly full grip will gripa tug in full at 7weeks old. I am not saying that throught bad training or a lack of training that the grip wont become less than full and calm. What I am telling you, is that if I go look at pups for sport, I am going to take the pup with a full grip over a pup that has a weak frontal nite any day of the week. A good prospect in my eyes will have good fight drive at 7 weeks. When they get a tug, they will atleast make an attempt to pull in the opposite direction. To see a puppy that chases a tug like a rocket only to lay there dead once they recieve it, is useless to me. When I said, "I would like to see little hesitation to bring the tug back", I was displaying my want for a good natural retrieve. I don't want a dog to get the toy and run under the deck. I would like to see a pup that brings it back when enticed and wants to continue the game we are playing. A pup that is too independant is too hard to train. If I wanted to pull teeth, I would have gone into dentistry. I may have your reply wrong, but if you think 7 weeks is too young to see potential, you are mistaken. If I want a better shot of picking a good prospect, the pups better have these qualities at this age. I know some dogs mature a bit later than some, but at the point that I am taken possession, I want to be sure they are remotely close to what I have in mind. I, nor anyone else can predict the future. It has to be there for me to say it is there. And to let you know, my litters have all shown these qualities at 5 wks. By 7 wks, you can carry them around with a tug in their mouth, like a suitcase.