"Let him be a puppy" - Page 1

As I am nearing the point where my first GSD is at the 5 year mark, and reflecting on the other dogs I have seen and worked with since then, I wanted to throw out a thought and a bit of a question. For background, he is a certified airscent dog in SAR and doesn't do any sport work.

When I started with my puppy, much of what I was recommended to do with him for the first year (online and at SchH clubs) was to "let him be a puppy".

As a first time GSD owner, I think I probably took that too much to heart, fearing he would be ruined for independent work if I imposed too much OB and repetition. But I had to do some while working in SAR starting at 16 weeks....

Fast forward to years later, the places where I had to have control (in the field doing SAR) - he is nearly perfect and agreeable about it, but the places where I allowed the *puppy antics* like on casual walks away from training, it feels like he still just really wants to act stupid and is only cooperating because he knows he has to.  Proofing new skills in that environment is do-able - but harder than in the field.

Hmmm... reading that I don't know that I can adequately express what I am saying about the difference, but hopefully that makes some sense.  I think I was very consistent when in a training environment because I had to be (my trainer would have beaten me up!) but outside of training, I looked for as many opportunities to let him "be a puppy" as I could. I didn't realize that the two philosphies (early training vs. puppy time & starting training later) don't really mix.

The question: What is it about "being a puppy" that is so beneficial to a GSD up to age 1? I understand age appropriate expectations, but shouldn't a properly driven dog with fair and consistent training that doesn't squash their ability to problem solve be able to excel even with structure?

What exactly is a day in the life of a puppy whose is being raised with that philosphy like and is it an appropriate path for an average pet owner?

Shannon :)

(Asking the question about 4.75 years to late)

I'm in the same boat as you and do not have a lot of experience to draw upon.  I'm told that the reason you "let them be a puppy" is to increase their confidence as much as possible for the first year... when it is fragile.  No corrections except for serious things, allow jumping, accept puppy behavior as such, and for the most part don't even have your dog as a house dog because you are most likely going to correct them quite a bit for chewing on things (if they have good potential they wil probably be monsters) and this is a no-no.

I imagine this was a great idea when almost all training was done with compulsion, but now that we have more knowledge about positive reinforcement I do not see why we have to wait so long.  I believe dogs learn easier when young and actually "learn to learn" better when very young.  I can see quite a difference between dogs that are taught positive reinforcement as puppies and drives are worked on as opposed to dogs that are raised in kennels without much training or drive development.  I love a dog that knows how to learn, knows the game behind positive reinforcement, and LOVES to play it.  Teach your dog from the beginning that a certain word ("no") means whatever they are doing is not getting them a reward, but if they do want is wanted they get a reward... I think this actually helps increase confidence too!  But I'm only speaking from what I've seen.

That makes a good deal of sense - and retrospectively - the people IRL that I was getting that advice from were competition folks with a trailer full of dogs to train.

I can't see any application for that in a small home environment. I think I had I gotten the explanation for that with my puppy at the time I would have trained very differently.

I began training my DDR pup when I brought him home at 8 weeks old, starting with housebreaking.  Lots of positive reinforcement and reasonable corrections when called for.  He is now 6 months old, heeling like a champ, maintains stays for several minutes ( lots of treats) and is doing a beautiful finish.  It is the 'learning how to learn' (and teach) that is fascinating to me.  Having a backround in rescuing GSD's that were victims of abuse or neglect, this was not the case.  It was all about earning trust.  I chose to purchase a puppy because I wanted a clean slate and it has been the most rewarding experience in my dog training life.   The pup is learning things faster with each new lesson.  The enthusiasm and the "I know how this works" comes from being very consistent, upbeat and not boring.  I don't repeat things over and over.  Shepherds don't like that I find.  The work ethic is amazing.

auntievenom-  Letting him be a puppy is pretty much making everything you do with him fun.  Play play play but he is still learning to do things like his obedience, house manners, ect.  Positive reinforcement with treats and toys.  You can still have him "working" from very early on but yet he doesn't understand he's even doing it because it's all "play". Even little tug toys are developing the dogs drives and he's learning but in his mind he is just playing a little tug of war.  You do this outside or in areas that it is OK.  If you don't want him to horseplay in the house then you don't do these things in the house.  I've started to learn that this is not all "rocket science" lol  just pretty much common sense stuff.  What they tell you not to do when a pup is under a year old is to start  for instance putting pinch collars on them to give corrections because this may have a negative impact on the pup as he's developing.  I'm at this difficult in between stage with my 8 mo old male.  He's becoming a bit of an ass at times that I would just looooooooove to put a pinch on him to fix his little ass but instead we have to go  a different route that is a little more time consuming and requires more patience on my part. 

I think you "let him be a puppy" too long. lol  It's hard not to love them too much I know.

I remember this well when I trained my first SAR K9. I wanted a well behaved dog, but I also didn't want to correct the independent disobedience out of her that is so important to what we need to do. I didn't really let my K9 be a puppy, at least after 17 weeks. She came to me at 17 weeks, and obedience came to her at 5 months. We did all the important things, down, come, sit, heel. However, in the course of all that, the fun of training those commands came in the form of runaways. By putting fun obedience on her, using a ball, food, and runaways, I never had an issue of her not being able or wanting to work out in front away from me at great distance. Obedience was taught separately from the search and refind. Also, from the day she came home, she went everywhere with me. Every day she went to work with me and learned to behave through positive interactions, and being tied to a very heavy metal desk.

Oh, then came my first SchH for me to train. I did all the obedience wrong. I didn't let her be a puppy, so I created some issues, that I am still and probably will always be correcting. She was a totally different dog. She didn't have the hardness my SAR K9 has, and she showed a LOT of handler sensitivity, I was too heavy handed. This pup also went to work with me every day and spent time tied to a heavy metal desk. Then along comes my second SchH, I have allowed him to be a puppy. He knows a few things, recall, sitz, platz, and believe me he could use a heavier hand than my SAR K9 got. 

Each pup is different, the hardest part is being able to determine for each pup what level of "letting them mature" they need. There is nothing wrong with putting obedience on a SAR K9, it is necessary! it is just in how you teach the obedience that makes the difference, at least that is in my experience.

To this day, my SAR K9 still has better obedience than my schh do.

GoldenElk,

I think your question deserves it's own thread... but I'll tell you my opinion on that.  Bottom line it will depend on how your dog trains best AND as a trainer what you understand and can handle.  Using mostly positive reinforcement is wonderful for most dogs but requires that the owner thinks more and can problem solve... not so easy for those who want to rush either as some things your dog may grasp right away and others may require baby steps.  The important thing is you will not ruin your dog... you may teach them something you don't want but you always leave it open to evolve further down the road.  It also helps build trust with your dog and a deeper connection... you are trying to work together to learn something new.  The dogs that benefit the most, I think, are the really intelligent ones, the ones who don't handle corrections well (too sensitive) and those who would need really tough corrections to get through to them (for these try working with your dog instead of against them).  I would use these methods on pet dogs as well.  Other methods are available but can cause more problems if you don't do them right.