Showlines longetivity.. - Page 1

Hello,

I have been following Sieger shows and various showlines and am comitted to buying a nice male and female for my sons for showing/titling/etc but reading some posts here lately I am a bit concerned regarding issues with the mental or overall health of showlines and am hoping some folks can give me some feedback on their experiences as far as what age their showline lived to as well as any health issues etc if any.

I would hope that some of the things (bad) I have heard are exceptions to the rule and not the accepted reality. In any event I would like the cold hard facts about showlines in general. I obviously plan to keep and care for the pups I ultimately buy  well after their show/work careers and understand somethings just happen and am prepared for that but am interested to know if its already a foregone conclusion.

Thanks in advance for your time,

Dan

By the way the showlines I am considering at the moment include VA Zamp X Pakros daughter (who placed high in her division in Germany this year) as well as a VA Quenn litter and possibly Ingodds Agassi all with very good motherlines (good producers) so I am satisfied of the history of the ones I am considering and am just interested to know about general showline issues in general if any.

Dan,

Expect to get 10 healthy years out of your showline. Anything more is a bonus. The dogs are prone to cancer as many breeds are. Many seem to have soft stools which, if it bothers you can be adjusted with a change in diet. Some get DM and a few get PEI. Hips and elbows are a crapshoot no matter which lines you get. Odds are in your favor though but you need both to pass. Don't forget dentition, size, and working ability, are essentilal.

I've had good luck with mine. No major problems. Very little maintenance and overall a hardy bunch. I have a Zamp daughter and a Quenn daughter that have never seen a vet except for their annual shots.

I have a vet in Germany that checks the dogs I buy. I do a health check, sperm check, blood test, teeth, take x rays to check the skelital structure for issues. The paperwork gets checked too for ownership, titles, HD and ED results. From there I have the dogs working abilities tested. No fun getting a dog that can't be titled.

I deal with people I trust and anything that doesn't check out would be an unknown that the checks uncover. It's cheap insurance. Just look at the number of complaints posted here... if  buyers would only take a few steps to ensure what they were buying checked out..... Alais, if everyone did, this site would not be as entertaining.

DOG1,

Thanks for the helpful information it's very much appreciated especially the additional info regarding the vet etc...I will as I hope I am already doing continue my due diligence then make my decisions. Would be interested in finding a vet to check the pups prior to shipment as I am purchasing them in probably Germany as well. They will be ready in the latter part of January.

Thanks again,

DAN

Are you  planning to go to germany yourself and pick the pup yourself and accompany it back....VeronicaK9 here on our site just got back , and that is her always suggestion...maybe she will come up and post ,,,she  has  working lines but doesnt matter  ; same rules of purchasing apply to any pup.....

Dan,

Starting with pups is a bit different than a young prospect. Pups are a gamble and this should be understood in contex. The price is low, quality is unknown to a degree, teeth are not in, hips and elbows are not old enough to determine, working ability is just beginning to appear, Sperm,,,,,well just 8 weeks ago they were one, so it's a bit early for that test. Blood test and heart check is about all you can hope for in a pup.

Realistically if it has a heartbeat and the vet signs the shipping papers, you take it from there upon arrival. Have you vet check it out when they arrive and go ahead and deworm with panacur and strongid to get rid of the worms they probably have. The checks I mentioned above can be done when the dogs are about 8 months old or so.

Your real work starts upon arrival. If you want to show and train, you'll need to get some help lined up. Find a good club now. Find one with a history of success with showlines as some clubs are hesitant to devote time to newby #126 that arrived at training with new show dog that they were going to learn to title. Newby wears out the club helper for 6 weeks only to find out it's too much work to title these little boogers and retire to pet home.

Don't get me wrong, there are some good clubs out there. I work with two where the helpers will stand out in the heat in a leather bite suit and work a pup until they pass out or the pups does something progressive.

Don't forget show training. You'll need help there too and it may be a different club as some are geared more towards one aspect or the other. You need both.

dOG1:   YOU  MUST THEN, FEEL A YOUNG POSPECT LIKE THE ONE ADVERTISED ABOVE     YOUNG QUANTUM SON  WOULD BE A GOOD CHOICE , AS YOU ALREADY HAVE TOUCH , SEE AND FEEL     AND VET CHECKS CAN TELL SO MUCH MORE.......

I guess choice is relative. You can buy 10 pups for the price of a good young dog. The young dog has overcome most of the obstacles that pups have yet to overcome. So there's less of an unknown and less risk. As a dog becomes older and more expensive, I'll do the checks on the first post.

But    10 x the price equals what or greater u may spend and have broken dreams and a broken heart , .......this male is 23 months old and so hes already well on his way and health issues would show by now or any blood work would bring forth any problems .....   RISK FACTOR     NOT     FEAR  FACTOR...LOL

THIS BOY IS     AMIR'S   AD......ONE NICE MALE....... SHELLEY JUST BOUGHT  JED, FROM TRACEY BULLINGER , SO SHE TOOK THE X FACTOR AND ESCAPED THE UNKNOWN ALSO......SHE HAS A PRETTY SURE FOOTING.......

Hello again,

I again appreciate ALL the help! I can't tell you how many times I pondered getting a young adult or a pup and finally the deciding factor was that since a pup will change as he/she develops I muight get lucky as I know most breeders will keep the best for themselves and the remainder are often (not always) sold to pay for the upkeep/training/etc of the "keepers".

Yellowrose: I have no intention of traveling to Germany to review/purchase a pup for several reasons the biggest being economics plus I probably wouldnt know a "good" from an "excellent" pup so it would be a waste. I have also heard some breeders keep their pups until 6-9 mos of age and then weed out what they will keep or sell.

Bottom line: In my opinion it's at least a bit of a gamble regardless of how or when you buy but the things you mentioned (Dog1) would certainly limit "mistakes" in purchasing. As far as a club I live in the Dallas Texas metroplex and know of at least one club in the area but will due more due diligence once I have the pups selected etc...

I will basically have the breeder send pics of the pups as well as see what if any warranty (testicles dropping etc..)they have but beyond that I go in knowing it will be a crap shoot and I will hope for the best. At least 2 reputable kennels were honest enough to let me know they as well as any other would not sell the "top" picks and that they never do.

One more thing when you compare a price of between 800-1200 Euro to buy a pup from Germany to the price of $4-5,000.00 for an inferior pup in the USA I really think the choice is obvious but again I'll see and am certainly open to suggestions.

Thanks again,

Dan