A Frame vs Vertical Wall - Page 1

You know I marvel how so many soft dogs have Sch 3 titles and i was talking to an oldtimer this weekend and we both agree that the conversion to the A frame was a change that has had a signicant impact on the breed not for the good. When there was a 6 ft vertical wall the dog had to have hips, nerve, and more correct size to do this. I feel as the dogs starting getting larger, softer, spongelike bone, extreme angulation it became apparent that these types of dog would not be able to do the vertical wall routinely. Unfortunately, the wall was part of the sch routine and some serious pretty dogs were having problems. So the wall was changed to "A" Frame. Now the powers at be were not going to give this reason for the change, but rather that this wall was causing injuries on the back end when the dog came down and landed. Front legs, elbows ,etc were being injured. But this oldtimer tells me that suggestions were made to have a 5 Ft platform on other side and then an incline to the ground to eliminate these injuries. This was rejected, I think because the real problem was on the front end. Valuable dogs no longer possessed the strength of nerve, hips, determination,to go over the front of the wall. So as we move forward we see the breed evolved into larger, in some case longer, more angulated dogs that no longer possessed the internal fortitude to "Take" the wall.Think about it, eliminating the dangers on the back end, how many dogs today would not be capable of hitting that wall at top and pulling themselves over. But if the body is too big, the hips don't have the explosiveness(angulation),and  the nerve to attack the wall with the vigor necessary, then they won't make it. Now multiply the many years that dogs with these deficits have been allowed to run up and down the A Frame and I think the impact is significant.JMO 

I think your right about the changes.  Sort of like pardon the phrase [butterfly effect] .   There will always be injuries, happens in every form of sport, be it human, dog, horse racing.   Its also true in nature, natural selection.  The limits are supposed to be pushed up not down.

JMO.

Interesting observation. There may not be any less Sch3 dogs if the verticle was still around but I do believe they would be built differently. I look at pictures of the vertical wall in other sports, amazing to see a dog do that.  Was the wall the same height for all three phases?  Or did it gradually get taller for each level?

Do any here, other then ring sport people, still train using a verticle wall?

Back in the day when we had the platform on other side we would raise to 6 1/2 and 7 ft. I have seen some shepherds do the seven and quite a few dobes back in the day. But the point is it was not something the wussie shepherd wanted to attempt. And to me wanting to try to do something that is possible is a trait I want to see in my dogs. I have been to some private facilities that still have vertical wall, but usually they now have the incline down to the ground. Its funny because last year I was at a place that had a wall and there was a person with a titled sch dog and they wouldn't let their dog attempt it even with the incline on the other side. I wonder what the Capt. would think?

Good points. If you lower the standard of what is used as a breed suitability test. You lessen the quality of animal you have to produce.

 Why do you think they took the gun shots out of the Bh? or the attack on the handler out of the blind ? or that during the breed survey they are givin 3 chances to pass the attack on handler out of the blind? weaker dogs mean more dogs to breed = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ it,s that simple the powers that be in Germany care little for the breed but much for the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ there is a way around this train your dogs with these items in there training evaluate your dog to a higher standard the old saying the proof is in the pudding will be evedent if you hold your self to a higher standard.