nerves in protection - Page 1

I agree with Get  a Real Dog. The dog in first video is fighting for his life. Pushed to his limit of ability to handle the situation. How can you tell? Body posture.. tail tucked, ears back. head low, almost leaning backwards away from the decoy., and the high pitched bark/snarling. Bad sign.  The dog in the second video is better. Head up, ears up, tail wagging, more forward body posture, more deeper bark,  less shallow bites with canines. Coming off the sleeve can be a sign of extreme stress, not seriousness.  ALL dogs, if they feel they are fighting for survival, will be serious about self preservation. That is NOT what the devinition of a working 'serious' dog should be, nor is.

Snarling is not good sign for your personal protection dog... a dog that is forward and eagerly anticipating a little rumble is  much sounder mentally , more reasonable, more easily to stay 'on target', and will stay and fight when the going gets tough. Remember to watch for head up, ears up, wagging tails, no bristling, forward stance. THAT dog could be dangerous to an opponent.

This is not a good video for newbies to watch and think these are 'strong' dogs. Not good nerves for family nor schutzhund field.

cindy g

gieski,
What video are you talking about. You said " I agree with get a real dog". Agree about what ?  Was this another thread or what? This sounds like something I would like to see. Help me out here. Thanks

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/bulletins_read/148989.html

Drop all that Sch training and reading of dogs in sch training and look at the work/outcomes of the first dog. The dog had a strong grip pulling the decoy into him and when he got the decoy into the right range spit the sleeve and IMMEDIATELY went for the body that was unprotected. This is not the work of a dog working in fear ! Have you ever seen a sentry dog trained and worked to guard a perimeter of an ammo dump or prison perimeter. Those dogs will fight and react just like that. They do not use the sch model of bitework in many many cases. Also, many non GS do not show the body postures that we are used to seeing in sch training, but the dogs are serious. That first dog was serious, almost lethaly serious if he had ripped the jugular. If anything this looks like a dog that has not been worked a lot, but that dog was serious and that decoy had a close call. You didn't see a release to get away from decoy in nerviness, you saw a release to get AT the decoy with a lighning strike that was almost disasterous. If that dog is weak I've seen many weak sentry dogs for the U.S.Army.

Remember that sentry dogs usually are trained to "stay" back from the "fence" until the "bad" guy has approached close enough to catch plus it's harder for a bad guy to hurt them from a distance. Also, sentry /guard dogs are trained with agitation to produce an amount of suspesion and dis-trust. If they are not careful the bad guy will "sting" them. Plus they want the dogs to be trustworthy all the time.

I think Gustav is correct but  of couse we all can have different opinions.

good morning,

We look for the same temperament of openness and confidence in the police dogs. A dog like the first one in the video would most likely not make a canine patrol dog. Excellent (balanced) schutzhund dogs make excellent K9 patrol dogs most of the time.  Shallow bites can be genetic from a strong dog, but that is the exception; and when coupled with the other behaviors the dog is exhibiting it leads one to suspect the latter circumstance..

I do not know criteria for border patrol nor security dogs loose behind a fence....but it doesn't look like the dog would engage if it was not 'cornered' by being on the leash, unless maybe it was a hapless kid or weak older adult showing signs of fear..then the dog might take a nasty shot that could esculate because the dog is on the brink of fear.

I hope all newbies take some time to study the videos and recognize what type of dog to avoid! A personal protection dog is really NOT the type of dog for the average family anyway. It takes allot of research and training to maintain this dog with knowledgeable, professional guidance.

cindy

I know I really shouldn't respond...but, what the hell.  Viewed the tapes when Ugly started the thread.  No one had responded, so I wasn't influenced by anyone's opinion. Love reading dogs.  What I saw in the first video wasn't a nerve bag.  Sorry Gard.....I viewed a dog with no prior conditioning just reacting to an unknown, weird situation.  He held his ground admirably.....even aimed for the neck.  No game here.  Not a crazy dog.  Somewhat unsure and confused with the presence of the owner---but that lunge for the neck was brilliant.

I'm just touching on the nerve-bag issue.......not evaluating the dog, searching for attributes that make for the sharpest, in-your-face PPD dog.  He is clearly, IMO, no nerve bag.

Gieske,

 You are right.

Jeff Olson and I have gotten into some nice "debates" before. Often I do not agree with him but he is right here as well. He makes a valid point. The dog got ahold of the decoy and didn't bite him. He bit at him and then bugged out.

You did a good job describing the body language and describing the two dogs. I was going to go into an in-depth discussion on this and reading dogs. I have done this time and time again.

This time I just figured "whats the point".

Jeff.

Thats there job, to deter a threat. They will run it off or they will Kill it. Theyve been doing it for hundreds of years, They ARE used to guard Prisons & to guard military  Depots. This is factual, you can gladly research it.

They arent Sport dogs,  so you dont "Finish" them.  They dont do prancing Obedience, they are 160# of a Guardian Dog & the Best in the World at what they do, whether fighting wolves, leopards or bandits.  Ive heard 1st hand accounts from my neighbor who has owned one,  & his experiences in Georgia Russia. 

The owner of the Vid states its a Green dog being tested for defense.  I believe him,  I dont think there was any bite development "pupy imprinting" and play work.  Do you?   

Are you concerned that these dogs might somehow corner the protection market? Why so insecure?   Other German handlers have stated the obvious. This is a serious dog & breed, no sport & a naturally Civil dog...