origins of arched back - Page 1

I am wondering about the origins of the arched back that is pretty predominate in GSD's. I don't think this was an intentional design by breeders but a result of breeding for better hips. Just a theory, wondering what those that have studied the history of conformation think. Interestingly, when my dogs are trailing their arches become straight powerful lines.

Thanks

Maxislooking, it is my understanding that you can place some blame on the heavy breeding use of VA Rolf vom Osnabrücker Land http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/729.html Rolf's progeny had sagging backs to some degree, so a correction was made by using dogs that had more of an arch in their spine. It became quite apparent during the 1980's that this was the "norm" for what was then called the West-German show-line dog.

The spine of a correct GSD does have a slight upward arch, but is is not very noticeable. The back is often described as "straight" when really it has this correct upward curvature. The curvature adds strength to the spine and assists the motion of the dog as it acts as a type of shock absorber. With the "banana back" of many of the modern show-line examples the croup length (too short) and angle (too steep) can be adversely affected, to the end that the dog's spine "wind's up" during launch and has much lost motion while running. An incorrect croup will also affect the power and smoothness of rear carriage motion.

Often when a dog is stacked for it's photograph you will see a pronounced upward curvature. This may not represent the dog's true anatomy at all, and the dog's true anatomy is best judged while watching the dog during natural motion such as a natural pause or a flying trot. During the flying trot (or a full-speed run) the spine of the GSD is supposed to be nearly motionless and remain true to the withers and the croup.

Regards,

Bob-O

Does anyone have a link to a video that would show the above described differences (in motion)?  (i.e. correct back in motion vs incorrect also in motion).  I've seen correct in motion but, would like to see how the "incorrect" moves also.

Thank you in advance. 

I haven't seen many, but the films I've seen of roach-backed GS show a ridiculous trot that involves a butt "pushing" (as opposed to sagging as it looks on American show) the dog from the ground.  Let's just say it looks like alot of wasted energy for not much actual output.  It is not effortless-looking at all.  Makes me think the dog is trying hard to push some heavy carriage in front of him - or maybe even pulling that heavy load.  Which doesn't exist.

Thanks for the info/opinion on the Rolf and the spine anatomy.  I guess most "flat" dogs (all breeds) do have a bit of arch, but none of these normal dogs is ever noted as "roach-backed".  Basically, only the greyhounds fit that description - and they are built for full gallops, not trots.  I'll say it's clear to me that the break all over the GS world came c.1970 (often evident in '60s too).  Before that, it seems most GS were quite uniform and dogs with a "fault" like broken back - or roaches (if there were any) - were just accidental and not part of a trend.  The types didn't really develop and separate until 1970.

I still see a normal-looking average mutt-type leggy square/rectangular dog with no roundness - what you'd get out of the average unguided breeding of dogs on themselves in the wild - as closest to what a dog should be, and what a GS should be (if he is the slightly rectangular type).  Perhaps I should say, what a wolf looks like in conformation, or a dingo.

I've seen a few GS that have much closer to what I'd call "normal" conformation - ideal - including my current dog, and they have much more beautiful, effortless, light-on-their-toes trots without apparent great reach.  You can't tell me that's worse than either fashionable type that looks like they're working real hard on nothing (both American and German, in different ways).

A Standardbred is not really hugely different in conformation than a Thoroughbred, yet that little difference makes them big trotters compared to any other breed.  Why would a GS need to be hugely different in conformation from the "average dog" to be greater in trot?

How about this photo here for an incorrect back? I think it looks REALLY awkard! Of course, the way the dog is pulling on the leash doesn't help.

Compare this dog's back with the gaiting video of Dingo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIFpKL0qRQ0  Now, that's the way it SHOULD be!

Susilver that video is literally poetry in motion, thanks for sharing!

As to that photo - how tragic

So what Bloodlines were used to correct the ROLF blood.???  Alf Nordfelsen was one...Who else.???

Dingo is indeed a joy to watch.  Anyone noticed how, although his left fore and hind feet are in perfect harmony, the right hind touches down before the right fore and the right fore reaches out a fraction before dropping to land?   Maybe he is leading with his right foot or it is a consequence of circling to the left.

Margaret N-J