schutzhund - Page 1

Does a dog have to be obedience trained, before it can do any form of other specialised training? i think so ! but need comfirmation. Plus HOW CAN YOU TELL IF A SIX MONTH OLD PUP HAS IT IN THEM TO DO SCHUTZHUND? ANSWERS PLEASE APPRECIATED!!!!!!! THANKS

ekamb1, I just went through this recently.  My boy just turned 10 months and I took him to a club when he was six months.  They told me of no OB requirements when I first took him, it was basically an evaluation.  I didn't really get any concrete answers, they said he had the right drives but they were a little crammed with not enough help and I was not assured of a spot in the club so I gave up.  I took him to a new trainer this weekend and he did a thorough evaluation. He has been in AKC OB since the age of 10 weeks but I don't think it's a prerequisite, you need to have someone evaluate him. 

What area are you in? Go to the DVG America and the USA Schutzhund clubs web pages and look for a club in your area.

Go check out the Schutzhund clubs within what you feel is an acceptable driving distance from your home. When you find one with what appears to be a very experienced helper, and people you can deal with seeing once a week have him evaluated. The main things that they will be looking for are prey drive and solid nerves. He does not need any OB training, and in fact you are much better off if he does not have any. Schutzhund puppies are raised very differently than average pets. The first thing you do with a pet is train and correct out of them the very behavior we want as SchH trainers in our pups. A SchH pup needs to jump, bite, pull on a leash without regard for the handler and be a pushy little butthead in general that feels invincible. All the manners can be taught at about the one year old point.

Most SchH trainers will think OB is a handicap and would rather the dog have none when starting bitework.  Alot of OB causes the dog to be very dependent on the handler.  When starting bitework you want the dog to be "free" bold and confident.  Dogs that have alot of OB initially won't progress as fast as others without because they are looking to their handler making sure it's okay for them to go to the end of the leash, pull and bark.

A friend of mine started SchH training after her dog alrready had her RN and BH.  The trainer told her NOT to do ANY obedience until she's well started in bitework.

Regards,
Melanie

i live in west yorkshire, uk, any one know of any schutzhund club were i could go to . by the way iv'e got a bitch does that make a difference? whats RH AND BH?

RN is Rally Novice, it's and AKC Obedience title.

BH is the obedience/traffic test that is required before you can compete for SchH Titles

As the others have said, most Schutzhund trainers do not recommend to not do very much obedience with young dogs as it can affect their bitework.  In my case, my dogs had alot of general obedience on them for training in herding and it definitely affects their bitework.  ie:  tend to be very concerned with me and what I'm doing, this is evident in certain exercises more than others.  It's not a complete crutch, but my next dog will be raised strictly for Schutzhund and I definitely will not be doing very much obedience aside from motivational stuff and the oh important recall!  I'll be interested to see if there's a difference.  That being said a very experienced trainer/handler can do obedience at a younger age.  This is just my general experience. 

Yes, you basically want to promote the drives for protection work before you do any real obedience work. Initially, the trainer must treat drive development as one of his most important goals. A strong drive can help the trainer overcome normal training problems which may arise, especially the dog's stress or submissiveness. Most corrections, particularly during the early learning phases, can result in some avoidance which you want to avoid.

Here is a link to Helmut Raiser's views on drives if you want to familiarize yourself with drives... http://siriusdog.com/drives-schutzhund-training-winkler.htm

Take your time in finding the right fit for you in a Shutzhund club. There are many interesting personalities in shutzhund and some may not blend with yours. You want to find the right fit so that you can make the required long term committment.

Also, I might add, that myself in general as a handler tend to put a lot of pressure on the dog even in the herding.  Good advice on finding a Schutzhund club, as there are several in my area, that I could choose from and in the end found one that I was most comfortable with.  In the end also traveling a bit further too.