Anterior cruciate injuries - Page 1

 I would really like to hear from anyone (esp working dog people) who has any experience with this type of injury.

My little dog has been injured. I took her to my vet last week who told me it was all in my head. I have used this vet for almost 20 years. They have performed some extrodinary procedures on several of my dogs and have saved them more than once.

I think they really blew it on this one. I know something is severly wrong. I let some people (and now my vet) sway my better judgment. Last night removed all doubt. I have not done anything physically with my dog for almost 6 weeks. Last night she flushed a rabbit and she looked like a 10 year old dog. My dog is very fast and very agile. She could not plant or cut on the leg. The rabbit cut left and she had to make a big half circle to continue.

I got on the internet and it seems as though she has all the symptoms of a torn anterior cruciate. I have an appointment with a different vet tomarrow. This one has orthopedic training.

I believe she either blew out her hip or tore the ACL. In a way I almost hope she blew the hip cuz it will make my decision easier.

So my question is, has anyone had their dog tear their ACL? If so, and you did surgery, what surgical procedure was performed? How much did it cost and how successful was the surgery? Could the dog still do the work?

This is the big question, will the dog still be able to do the work?

Thanks

I would highly recommend you contact a rehabilitative veterinarian, it's so important post-op. Where are you from GARD? In my experience this injury is quite plaguey, flaring back up and eventually causing problems in the other leg from compensating. I am no vet, but I have seen a good half dozen dogs with this injury, and that's what I've seen. They were all pets.  Thats all the info I can give, sorry I can't be more helpful.

All I can do is send good thoughts your way.  

Aye! lad thar be no pleasant answer here. Me seen a bunch o' good dog's careers ended by t' injury. When your dealin' with ligaments t' Vets be few and far between who have knowledge. There be a college in t' Rockies who be experts in t' field, but may be too far for ye t' travel Aye! With this injury, speed be o' t' essence regardin' surgery. AYE!

It is a very common injury unfortunately.  More so in the Labs/Goldens, where I think there's gotta be some genetic component, because I do not think these dogs are doing anything different than my dogs and my guys probably even more so.  Although it is always in the back of my mind!  I think to a degree too, that a dog that is in good condition might be less prone to the injury as well.  But look at all those football/baseball players that end up with the injury just for doing something seemingly silly.  A good vet should be able to feel for a "drawer" sign in the ligament very easily.  Sometimes sedation is needed especially if the dog is very tense and very large. 

Is the dog three legged lame?  It's sad but I've gotten to the point where I can tell almost as soon as they walk through the door if they've torn their ligament.

GARD

I have seen four dogs with these type injuries. three of the dogs I know never worked again due to the fact they could not do the jumps. all three of the dogs that never worked again had very bad tears in the ligimets. the fourth dog only had a very minor partial tear and after six months of no activity and alot of crate time the dog finaly returned to training and is looking good. the vets that worked with the three that never worked again did not recommend surgery unless it was absoultly needed. the vets also mentioned that with the surgery there was almost no shot at working again.

sorry about your luck, hope its nothing to bad.

Get A REAL Dog:

I've had a dog with this injury.  I had the operation done.  A ligament on the side of the knee can be used to rotate around to replace the Anterior Cruciate, IF you have the operation done SOON.  If you wait too long, the joint begains to have arthritis and then the boney surfaces resemble coral, jagged, rough, and the operation cannot be performed.  There is also another option on how to replace the ligament...I can't remember how it was performed, but a knowledgable veterinarian surgeon should be up on all of the latest techniques.  The cost of the ACL repair operation in Alaska, which is often more expensive than elsewhere, was about $1600, which included the cost of 2 sets of xrays needed to see the extent of the damage and the improvement afterwards.  The operation was well worth the cost.  The dog can continue a useful active life and live quite long.  Even without the operation, arthritis will set into the joint and steady it.  The dog may not be lame from the arthritis for several years, after which, doggy pain meds might work pretty well.  The dog appears to be in the most discomfort directly after the injury. 

Your vet can diagnose the injury 100% by manipulating the joint, carefully, and see if he can get it to bend backwards, which would not be possible if the ACL was intact.  It's a sickening sight, but buck up, the dog may be well worth saving with an operation.

Good luck ~ Veronica

I forgot to add...I don't think  the dog will continue with Schutzhund work, but the dog can go on walks and even go jogging, and perform in other areas is what I was told.  ~ Veronica

save your money and time and take her straight to a board-certified orthopedic surgeon.  Emphasis on board-certified.  They are trained to know what to look for, make the proper diagnostics, and do the surgery.  There are different surgical procedures, get the information and make an educated choice based on what your dog needs.  Yes, the knee can be repaired and your dog can recover 100% and be able to work - depending on the surgeon, how careful you are with rehab after the surgery, and luck.  Good luck.

molly

Get a Real Dog, There is a Yahoo group called OrthoDogs that has a wealth of information.  There are I believe two or three different procedures with this type of injury.

My 1/2 working line and 1/2 showline male, ruptured his at 1 year of age.  First thing my Vet told me is he sees this injury in two different groups of dogs, one if the old small lap dog and the other is the young athletic dog.  There is a physical test called the "Drawer test" where the pick up the dogs back leg and move it back and up.  If the ACL is damaged this will cause pain or discomfort to the dog and physically the leg can't move that way.  My male would run with very little problems (huge ball drive) but when standing or walking he pulled the foot up and wouldn't bear weight on it.

I felt very comfortable with having my vet do the surgery, in my area there are no Ortho's close plus were are loaded with hunting dogs, so he did this procedure about 3 or 4 times a year.  I had what is now considered old technology so to speak, they replaced the ACL with a synthetic one, my males recovery time was a bit longer than normal as he tore out 3 of the 4 Miniscus (sp) cartledge type material that acts as shock absorbers and stabilizers for the knee.

Post surgery rehab is important, you don't want to rush the process.  My male was limited to on leash potty walks to start and over the length of 8 weeks building up to 2 walks of 2 or 3 miles each on grass or non packed snow.  I live in WI and there were no therapy pools around at that time and this was in January.  Then off leash excercise easy retrieves, did a lot of gaiting, not full out running.  Then in the spring the best thing I did was let him play with his favorite female, she is small and quick, so she helped on getting him moving better.

Also post surgery is the best joint supplement you can find.  I was not happy with the results from the Cosiquin that the Vet sold me.  First there is a small percentage of dogs that can't handle the Chondroitin, because it causes GI upset.  So I found a supplement that worked for him.

Side note I talked with a breeder and trainer for K-9 Units and he said that a few of the K-9 dogs have had ACL injury, no surgery, just rest.  They will limp and get arthritis as they age, but the depatments can't afford to wash a yound dog out.