? for BREEDERS re: Vaccines & Stress... - Page 1

Vaccines and Stress related occurance....

What have YOU as a Breeder experienced with stress related occurance in vaccinations ??  Specifically Bordatella...

I know that in the shelter we vaccinate EVERY dog/pup for Bordatella,  BUT because of the stress the pup/dog is under nearly 80% of pups/dogs break with bordatella virus,  however 98% recover with antibiotic support to prevent those nasty secondary infections... yes I know you can't treat KC....the antibiotics are simply to "support" the immune system against those other little nasty's that can creep in during the time the immune system is weakened....

My question is do you counsel your pup/dog  buyers when they are purchasing to NOT vaccinate they're new pup/dog against bordatella until the pups/dogs stress level has decreased due to NEW home ??  and what would that time frame variations be ??  5 days, 8 days, 14 days ??

and what would YOUR vet reccomend regarding bordatella vaccine being given during a Stressful time period ??  I already know what mine says....

I would like to hear from BREEDERS,  I would also like to keep this a CIVIL collection of opinions and ideas.... Thank You...

I did acquire some very helpful links so anyone who is interested in more information I would be happy to provide those for you just email me.....posting this here because I am truly interested to hear others thoughts regarding stress occurance...

per the AAHA 2006 guidelines, bordetella is a noncore vaccine.  i do not recommend bordetella for my pups.

i do not routinely give bordetella, and in fact only 2 of my dogs have recvd it in the last 4 years.  1 was being boarded ( the boarding kennel required it)  and the other was having his OFA xrays done (the clinic required it for all dogs that were 'staying' - frankly a rip-off as the dog was only there 4 hours, and did not get the vaccine till i dropped him off.)

none of my dogs have ever had kennel cough, and i have had multiple dogs since 1979.  i am sure that in some situations, such as being in a shelter, giving the bordetella vaccine makes sense.

I don't vaccinate for bordelleta at all either and have never recommended that a client does.  I give vaccines at 7 weeks which gives the pups one week before they go to their new homes.  The second shot is then given 2 or 3 weeks after they arrive at the new home so there isn't a stress problem there.  In all the years of doing rescue and the few breeding GSD's I haven't had a pup break out with anything nasty after they left.  I have had pups get coccidia and demodectic mange after arriving here which can also be stress related.

I actually stated my schedule wrong...6 weeks for the first vaccine and 7 weeks for the tattoo is what I meant.

kioanes and MI GSD,   I want to Thank You both for responding,  and kindly so.   :-)

I'm used to using this vaccine in the shelter,  BUT I do not give this vaccine to my dogs unless they are going to show, or trial....  That being said,  I also would NEVER give this vaccine to any of our pups under 5 months of age, or any adult dog rescently purchased,  ie... dogs under stress !!!!  

I see what the vaccine does to the shelter dogs !!!   They survive it yes but some become VERY Ill and it's a battle to get some of them through it dependant upon they're immune system, age, very young, very old, weight, parasite infestation, There are so MANY factors involved....

When I have used it in my own dogs,  I have never had an adverse reaction,  However I have been VERY cautious to NOT give this vaccine during a time period that the dog is stressed,  It has always been much previous to any event so that "Shedding" the virus would NOT affect dogs coming into contact with our dogs...

So in my own dogs giving the vaccine has been successful,  However my experience using this vaccine in the shelter, ie... dogs under stress is that the occurance is VERY GREAT...  

Is there anyone reading this who also has experienced Stress related occurance when using the bordatella vaccine ???

When I send my pups to their new homes, I stress to the people
to only vaccinate for Distemper & parvo, and then of course the 
rabies shot anytime after 16 weeks.
Although one lady said she was going to do Lepto too.

I have read up on certain vaccines & the lepto doesn't cover
all the different strains, so why do it.

My sister had her chihuahua vaccinated before a dog show
one time, and the vet assistant almost killed the dog, she
she gave him the shot under his skin & it was one that was 
supposed to be put in the dogs nose, he survived, but what
a sick dog she had for a few days!

I like to do the very minimum required, when it comes to vaccines.

EchoMeadows, is that mandatory to give to every dog at the shelter?
And if it is I would say that some dogs with a compromised immune
system aren't going to process it as well as a dog in tip top shape.

mirasmom,  It's not Mandatory  but yet it kind of is....  if that makes any sense....  We have a "Responsibility" to care for the dogs here in the Best "husbandry" capacity available,  That said of course everyone agrees vaccinate vaccinate vaccinate,  Well there are a few cases,  Very old, Very young, Clinically Ill,  lnjured, or horribly parasitic dogs that we will hold off on if we feel the health of the dog is in such a weakend state that the dog can not be safely vaccinated.... So the dogs that we deem healthy enough for vaccines we vaccinate,  dogs we are affraid of "health wise" we hold of on until we have made some progress in determining the needs of that dog.  In addition "Very Well Kept" dogs are often held off on vaccines for a few days allowing the owner a chance to claim the dog,  typically these "very well kept" dogs are current on vaccines and for me to go nailing them with another vaccination "unscheduled" is considered to be more detremental the the "possible" exposure the dog may have come into contact with while running at large....  

Hope that answers your question kinda long winded   :-)

Also Thank You for the information you provided .... Very appreciated.

Here a site to refer to when it comes to the dangers of OVER-vaccination.  

http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/petvacc.htm

Depending what part of the country  you life in you need to research what is prevelent so not to vaccinate unnecesarily.

My pups only get Parvo/Distemper and I adhere to the above link's schedule of 7  1/2  weeks first shot, and I only give mine HALF of the vaccine, and then have the pups owners vaccinate at 12  1/2 weeks.  

I witnessed a Mexican Hairless dog called Muneca DIE by bleeding out of over vaccination by her breeder in California.  She had started to vaccinate Muneca at THREE weeks, six weeks, 9 weeks and AGAIN when my friend went to pick Muneca up at 12 weeks!!! the Full On shot was given to her, and this is the same size as is used for a Great Dane!!!  

This is Muneca, she was the sweetest dog, and what a horror as this didn't need to happen to her.   Look at her left leg, that too was a deformity that came from her immune system breakdown due to over - vaccination.   And that breeder would take no responsibility for her killing her own dog.  My friend spent about $5,000 in all to save her, and the poor thing suffered to no end.  UNbelievable.  This breeder from California should be vaccinated.   I need to post this in the Mexican Hairless database with that woman's name, so no one buys from her....