Dog killed goat - Page 1

I have an 8 year old German Shepherd that has been living on a small farm for 5 years now.  She is a very gentle dog and I  have spent many hours on obedience training.  She has never chased or killed any cats, chickens,  ducks or horses.  I got 2 pygmy goats( mom and baby) for my son to show at the next fair. T they were penned up for about a month and let out to pasture about a week ago.  Again, my dog showed no interest in them until the other day where she had them penned in a corner and was biting at their necks.  Then today she malled the baby to death.  No bloodshed, thank goodness.  What would make her become so aggressive all of the sudden. Is she now a forever "killer".  any tips on stopping this negative behavior.

Could be several things, but one that comes to mind is that, at first, your dog may have been slightly afraid of these "strange things" and just kept away from them because of that.  Then your dog became no longer afraid after these "strange animals" did not go after or hurt her.  Her prey drive, which has always been there, finally kicked a little more when she "tested" them a little by snipping at them or going after them hesitently and they ran.  That would have emboldened her to go after them stronger and being small goats, they did not put up much of a fight and she did what canines do.  Go after and kill prey animals.

Can this behavior be stopped?  Yes, but it will be very difficult if you do not know what you are doing.

My question to you would be:

Why, after "she had them penned in a corner and was biting at their necks" yesterday, was she able to get to them today?  It sounds like she was with them without supervision today, even though she showed yesterday that she would hurt them.

After yesterdays incident, measures should have been taken whereupon she could not, without extreme effort, got to those poor animals.  Please make an extra effort to make sure that she does not have any access to the still living mother goat.  If you have her on a leash and are attempting to train her to stop this kind of thing, that is one thing, but never let her be alone with another goat, especially a pigmy goat.  Personally, I would cut my losses and have my son show chickens or ducks, since your dog is okay with them.

I could give you amethod or two that might help deter this type of action, but I will not as I would feel really bad if I did and your other goat got killed or mauled by your dog.  I prefer that you find another home for the remaining goat.  It is not an important thing in your life and it has already lost its offspring to your dog.  Whichever way it shakes out, I hope the best for you, the dog and the goat.  Sometimes you mix two different things together and find out that the mixture is bad.  The lesson is not to mix those two things together again.  Applies in this situation and other situations you will encounter in life.

We have livestock as well as various kinds of birds.  Our dogs go to the barn with us but do not run unattended.  The safest thing for all, including your dog, would be fence your yard or build a kennel so the dog is not roaming while you are not with it.   If you allow your dog to roam, you run the risk of further injury to your other animals or even neighbor animals.  Good fences make good neighbors.

I've been told it's all about channeling the dogs drive in the right direction...No I don't know how to do it! lol  I've been told by a few herding trainers that a dog that has killed can be part of herding instinct.  However you must channel the drive and be able to control it.  And by control, that means no unsupervised meetings between your dog and the goat!  Honestly, over my short life of 25 years I've came across very very few GSD's that wouldn't kill sheep, or hogs, or chickens, etc. if the chance was there.  From my experience, since he has "gotten the taste of blood" his days of running free are over, unless you can find a method to slowy correct this problem.  If this goat brought his prey drive out in him, you might have to watch his interactions with the ducks or whatever else you might have.

Not saying I'm right, but my 2cents

Tyler

My 6 year old bitch ate  the stomach of two goats, when she was two years old... She was well fed that night before the murder happened... The next morning I saw the corpse with just the stomach slashed and innerts missing... I noticed she took the prey down by the throat... probably why we didn't hear a thing... Same scenario with the 2nd goat... You wake up in the morning, seeing her all smiles with blood on her cheek and running and trotting the whole morning...

What a small world. DoFear and this brand new member both have pygmy goats?

tquinn,

This is weird because I just talked to a lady who is the mother of a lady whom I sold a puppy to 6 years ago who just killed a sheep.  I asked her a few questions and explained that these are "herding" dogs and if their natural prey drives are not channeled in the right ways, they will soon try to take the animal down and then it often goes from there to worse.

I asked her why the dog was allowed to be near the sheep when not supervised.  I also asked how they were restraining the dog when they were not there, how much exercise and what type they were giving him.

There's also been other killings on the farm and nearby but, said to be from a bobcat whom they've not only seen the tracks from but, have seen the actual cat itself.

I asked her how they "knew" this sheep was killed by the dog and all she said was "oh, they know".  So, this lead me to think that there were previous incidents or "close" incidents.

I think they've had signs all along that the dog's drives were really kicking in and if they'd been more atuned to the dog, they should have been able to see this. 

I can tell by watching my dogs what they're getting ready to do.

I explained that from this point on, if they do not keep the dog restrained properly, they may end up having to have the dog put down and/or have their angry neighbors to deal with. 

It's sad on the dog's behalf, not to mention the poor sheep but, this is where the owner's need to take control of a situation before it gets this far. 

Are you sure there weren't signs?  The dog staring the animal down, whining, pacing, following anxiously with her eyes, drooling? 

This is interesting.  Again, I ask, is it really OK to have THAT much prey drive when you're supposed to herd?  I have never been privileged to hear herding people - and I mean ALL herding people, not just GS types (which are RARE) - talk much about herding knowledge and wisdom.

Indications here are that "it has to be channeled" - i.e., the dog likely will kill by nature, and you have to head that off early.

But does anyone ever hear this about the other "herding" breeds?  Do they all have so much drive that most of them naturally would kill a sheep or cow or goat?  Collies?  Border Collies (my aunt has had many, and I've never heard her complain about the BCs even getting close to killing the sheep)?  Bouvier?  Belgians of all stripes?  Beardies?  Will "good dogs" of these breeds also tend to kill if not "channeled"?

Is this really necessary to be that wound up that the dog can't help but kill?

Rebel,

I agree that a reliable herding animal should not have the "desire" to kill the very animal(s) it is herding.  However, a dog that does possess a lot of prey drive (as gsds do) will generally start out by chasing the animal, then, if allowed to nip the heels, sometimes will take it further and get an actual bite on the animal.  If this is allowed to happen without correction a number of times, the dog sometimes will take it further.  If the dog is able to down the animal, many times, the flailing about of the animal, noises the animal makes, etc will further encourage the dog to take it even further which can lead to the dog destroying the animal.

And, we did have a border collie who started running with the neighbor's dogs when I was a child and started killing sheep.  The dog had to be put down.

Some I saw described talk less about actual "biting" wound kills than about the disastrous shaking of the animal.

My dog is EXTREMELY driven by small (non-canine/human) animals, and of course any animal that will run away (sheep, etc).  She can make a beeline to them and takes no heed of anything else.  She has killed several small animals by incredibly powerful and fast vigorous shaking - generally letting them be after that.  It's like she loves the play-toy aspect of it and is disappointed when they won't move any more.  I've always said I don't think she DESIRES to kill, but just does.

Is this "good" prey drive?

I just think the fact she focuses so intently so that nothing can stop her is ridiculous.  I can't help think that's a detriment to good herding and "easy" training.  Even if she doesn't want to kill to eat, it seems that there shouldn't be a need for such high drive!

How many other herding breeds commonly used for more aggressive activities have this tendency to "latch on" and go right in and kill?