when looking for a dog.. - Page 1

Lately, i've just been browsing through the female for sale section, as I am looking for another dog to purchase. I currently own a nice sable male with a bh and ad, on his way to getting his sch 1 and breed survey. I would like to breed the pair when the time comes. I am definitely not going to purchase a dog atleast until he has those titles and his hips done.

My question: What lines should I look for?

I'm a working line girl, and am into sables and czech lines. I'm 15 and only been in the sport since I got my boy. So almost two years now, so I know a ton about the sport, but not so much about specific lines. Not too crazy about the DDR fad going on. I haven't heard anything good from personal contacts, so I would like to stay away unless something amazing comes up.

Thanks for any advice

-emily.

Emily,  First let me say WOW !!   a Young 15 and you already know what you want and you are working for it !!!  Very Impressive indeed !!   I wish you the best getting your titles done on your male...  I also want to encourage you stay in the sport,  without our youth taking interest in the sport,  It WILL as so many other things HAVE die off !!   

Kudos to you and keep up the great work !!

unfortunately I am NOT into the sables or Czech lines so I have nothing useful for you there,  I appologize for that,  BUT I hope others will step up and offer they're expertise to a youngster with the desire to learn !!  

Truly Truly I have ALOT of respect for you !!!

haha, thanks so much! I try to keep my priorities straight, and this sport has been a dream. Even though I never expected so much drama in a single schutzhund club, I thought drama ended with highschool. lol. Thanks again!

-emily.

Emily,

Congratulations on your accomplishments!  Keep up the good work.

Talk to Becky at Holtzberg.  http://www.vomholtzberg.com/Index.html    She has both Czech and DDR lines.  I have an 8 month old female from her that is awesome!  I told her what I wanted and I got exactly what I asked for.   I do not know if she has an all Czech breeding planned but I'm sure she'll be happy to discuss it with you.

Feel free to email me privately if you'd like to know anything else about my female.

Good Luck!!

Heather

MelloDee at   germelhaus has great working dogs that are not filled with ddr....and   www.gerdeshaus.com  has a new litter born and she and MelloDee are in the same club together....../she has a  female that has not been deposited on , which leaves the pic of llitter right now  available....and she has a requiredment of ofa is a must before breeding..contact....Amamda Gerdes is gerdeshaus owner....and she does havae a 30 month hip guarantee...do not buy any pup without a written hip guarantee.....

MelloDee is the producer of Dave Kroyers dog on USA team   Rasta   and  Ricky Haygood  the HOT championship dog of MelloDees named Rocky vom Germelhaus.....for 2006

www.germelhausgermanshepherds.com     I think is her site....I have her email  if you pm me I can relay it and info   She will talk to you and help  you  and she is unbiased....

MyGSDRebel-  What does your males pedigree look like?  If you're thinking of breeding you may want to start to research your boys parents,grandparents in order to better determine a nice bitch for him.  I am partial to the czech dogs too- you're my kinda girl.  I have 3 working lines primarily czech.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/514278.html

That's him! His stack was.. bad. haha. I just love the looks of those pretty black sables, I saw a puppy at training today and fell in love again! haha.

I'm definitely going to check Germelhaus and Holtzberg. Thanks a ton!

-emily.

Emily,

I applaud you for starting now and wanting to learn what you should look for.  An attitude many could learn from. I have one quick photo tip for you and then some tough questions and a few comments.

Did you handset Cain for the photo or have him walk into a stack? The latter is easier but you have to understand that there are right and left handed dogs. While ring convention  places the dog as you have Cain in the photo some dogs prefer to have the other leg as the stretched one. So try him both ways see what he sets himself up naturally as. If you hand set him be careful of "bridging" his front which it appears to be in this photo. You want the leg to go straight down from the shoulder not pulled ahead. if setting by hand set it by holding the elbow not the leg. Finally to take the actual picture place yourself directly across from his shoulder and kneel or crouch so you are at the same height not higher. Focus on the shoulder and front leg and take the shot.

Ok tough question time. You state you want to get a bitch to breed to your male. Is that your goal, aim, aspiration as a breeder or are there other reasons you want to breed? Structure is very important to a good working dog- he can work longer and better with correct structure. Can you identify correct structure and temperament? How many trials and conformation shows have you been to. Have you ever gone to a national or a sieger show? How well do you know the standard? Do you understand the terminology and what it is looking for and what would be considered an ideal or standard GSD? Are you able to look at a dog or bitch and identify their strengths and weaknesses? When contemplating a breeding one usually wants to improve or correct some aspect of the dog you're starting with. Would you be able to judge what needed improvement or correction and would you be able to identify a dog who had and hopefully would produce that? Do you have any knowledge on what traits are easy to change, what ones you never want to lose (good fronts they are impossible to get back) etc. Now the toughest question. What makes you believe Cain is a breeding quality animal. Have you had him evaluated by any neutral knowledgeable breeders (someone w/ some time in grade) or better have you gotten a show rating on him in preparation for Koering him. Do you know if he is likely to koer?

Ok lets presume for the moment that Cain will koer, OFA and get his Sch3. Before we discuss bitches lets discuss resources and puppies.

Do you have sufficient assets/resources to take on breeding dogs at this point in your life ( You may if you have a good support system - I was able to start about the same age because I had my families help and support) Keep in mind Murphy's law is real and for some reason it always hits the good guys not the scumbags. What will happen if the bitch needs a C section - will you be able to afford it (Not sure does pet insurance cover this these days?) or god forbid the puppies get parvo and require expensive treatment etc. Do you have the resources to take care of the puppies for as long as it takes to assure correct placements for them. There is an old saying that you shouldn't breed unless you are in a place to keep all of  the puppies if you are unable to place them. Bit extreme but it can happen.

Which leads us back again to your goals and aims as a breeder because that will determine your market. Do you/ will you have a market? Why should I buy a pup from you rather than anyone else? What kind  of knowledge experience can you offer buyers? What kind of guarantees can you offer ? ( This one I disagree with 'cause dogs are not toasters but we have let the AR types create a hype that animals should be/can be guaranteed as if they were a toaster).  How will you ensure that the pups are sold to appropriate homes? If a pup is returned to you for whatever reason will you be able to take him or her?

So finally we come to the bitch that you asked about. Are you intending to buy a puppy and grow her out and title, ofa and breed survey her before breeding or are you looking to buy an already titled bitch ( expensive possibility to get a really good one)? What happens if you buy an adult and she doesn't get along with Cain? Have you thought about the possiblity of leasing a bitch as opposed to buying one? This gives you more options in terms of breeding over the long run but may be difficult to do. Again as a "newbie" what about you would make an experienced breeder trust you on a lease witha valuable breeding animal. Once Cain has koer, titled and ofa'd have you considered freezing his sperm which would allow you the luxury of time to make breeding and buying decisions? If he does really well as a sport dog and competes at a high level perhaps someone might be interested in breeding to him. If you could do that and get a puppy back in place of a stud fee would that suffice for you instead of purchasing a bitch? ( that's a very big IF tho)

Hopefully you are not hyperventilating at this point  cause now we come to the good stuff- the choices that Cain's pedigree gives you.

First a quick comment re DDR. I have always found that some dogs/lines are like salt and pepper- best used a pinch here or there for some spice but you don't want to overdue it or it spoils the recipe. You need to click on the 7 generation of Cain's pedigree and take a look. Turns out you've got a fair amount of DDR salt and pepper.

Cain is an outcross with an open pedigree - no linebreeding in the first 5 generations. There have been some other posts about linebreeding vs outcrossing (open pedigree) wh/ you may want to read. I personally love open pedigrees because it gives me a lot to play with BUT you have to understand that it does make predictablity and litter consistency more difficult. Agar gave you some good advice about researching his ancestors. Is there a type that appeals to you? Have you heard or read anything on a particular dog that you liked? But you need to combine that kind of infomation w/ the information you have gathered previously about Cain and his structure, faults and virtues AND your goals. Do they start to direct you in any particular direction? Most people will just put together 2 pedigrees and say o look its a 4-4 linebreeding on Top DOG so lets go with that. What you are doing by linebreeding is attempting to concentrate traits(ergo genes) that Top DOG expressed and hopefully passed on. This is where you need to do your homework. Did Top Dog AND his progeny actually pass on the trait or traits that you are looking for ? if not it doesn't do any good to linebreed on him. You may want to explore this site http://www.breedingbetterdogs.com/ .  I'd recommend a copy of his book. Well worth it. Also see if you can get either or both books by Malcolm Willis about GSd genetics ( if you find a copy of the one from the 70's let me know I will buy it. My copy walked)

If you choose to do any linebreeding Cain's pedigree has a wealth of opportunity. He has strong W German working lines thru Marc vom Herkulesblick   V Bingo vom Teuchelwald  Geiersnest and Zitadellenburg dogs. He also has some great Dutch lines and the dutch dogs are known for their greatworking ability. Finally same as the pedigree is salted with a bit of DDR dogs it also salted with a bit of hi-line or show dogs ( tho old hi-lines) wh/ could be a possbility. So good luck and have fun.