German Shepherd killing a cow? - Page 1

Quick question to the board.

Has anyone ever heard of a German Shepherd (a bit over a year old) killing a calf/cow before?

Have a friend who lives in the country a bit and was adopted by a German Shepherd.  She just showed up at his door step one morning and looked a bit rundown.  Turns out she has a mild case of heart worms but he is keeping her on medication and decided to keep her.

She has now lived with his family now for several months and is adjusting great.  No signs of agressions as far as he can tell.

The dog does like to bark at cows and calves on the pasture adjacent to his.  She has been seen running with three other neighborhood dogs herding the cows into a nearby pond. 

Weird thing is that since she has been there she has never really gone off property as far as he can tell (they don't have a fence). 

Couple of days ago a calf showed up dead and the Rancher is convinced that it was his Shepherd killing it.  Time of day etc. is kind of fuzzy since he called them at 8am in the morning saying it happened last night (The dog was inside with the family from early evening til the next morning) then he kind of changed it to yesterday.  They do have a lot of coyotes in the area.

The rancher now wants him to reimburse him for the dead calf and has threatened him that he will shoot her on sight.  My buddy is in the process of building a fence so that she can not get out.  He only got to see the dead calf at night and after it had been dragged via tractor to several different locations (no idea why).

Question:  Has anyone ever heard of a GSD and a young one such as that ever killing a cow?  Even though she hasn't shown signs of agression (besides barking at the dorn things).

Any and all input is welcome.

yes a GSD can physically kill a calf.  Probably not an adult cow though.  The farmer would have to prove that their dog did the killing before he could make them pay for it or press charges.  However he would be within his rights to shoot their dog or any dog if found on his property if he thought his livestock was in danger.  Since he has threatened to do just that, your friends should put up a fence immediately and check it routinely to make sure the dog cannot escape.  It might mean her life if she wanders onto the neighbor's property, even if she is not chasing the livestock.

ps GSDs would be far more likely to bring down and kill a healthy calf than coyotes.  However if the calf was newborn - coyotes could definately do the deed.

Years ago my two dogs wandered off with a "farm dog Jack Russell Terrorist" where I worked - my dogs were a GSD 6 month old, and an older GSD/lba mix who was a real wander-lust.  Both of my dogs were raised around livestock though and not fence-jumpers.  I was driving around looking for them when a neighbor ran up to my truck and said my dogs had mauled a sheep not far away, and that the owner of the sheep had gone home to retrieve his gun and would shoot the dogs seen in the area - my dogs.  The sheep were in an enclosed pen.  When I got there my dogs were nowhere to be seen, but I met with the sheep owner and looked at the damage - one sheep brought down (not killed) with her ears, face, hind legs and neck/throat shredded.  LOTS of damage.  But the fence was intact and electric wire on the top - no way could either of my big dogs have gotten in there.  I knew they would not jump, and if they had, they would still be in there as they were also both "schooled" in electric fence etiquette.  However the Jack Russell could have squeezed through one spot, and we found white hairs on the fence in that spot.  Amazing how much damage a 12 lb dog could do to a 250 lb animal.  Sheep owner still thought the damage had to have been done by larger dogs, and since he saw my dogs in the area, I was responsible.  I took that responsibility even though I was 100% sure my dogs were not at fault - after all, my dogs were not under my control and were seen on his property.  I stayed up all that night with the owner and his sheep, caring for her.  She lost both ears and an eye but recovered.  I would have paid for her had she died. 

Bottom line is, control your dogs.  They can do damage to livestock and it's your responsibility to not let that happen, and it's your loss when the owner of the livestock shoots your dog for being suspected livestock-chasers or killers because it's within his rights to do that.

molly

molly

That's a dog pack running.  The GSD with three other neighbor dogs?  More then the calves are in danger at that point.  Yes, they could easily kill a calf.  we caught neighbor dog chasing our lambs one day.  told the neighbor it was the dogs one freebie as it hadn't hurt anything.  The dog left soon after.  Another neighbor had to pay for our top tom turkey after his dog got in our pasture and killed it.  Animals in the country SHOULD NOT be allowed to run lose.

Yes a GSD could easily kill a calf but so can coyotes. Don't understimate coyotes. I have seen cows taken by coyotes while calving. They took the females while they were down birthing. They do work in packs contrary to what some people will tell you. We had a Tom Turkey attacked by some coyotes one morning. Awoke to his gobbles and feathers everywhere. My husband shot one of them, the others ran and the Turkey survived. Mean as the Turkey was, I wish they would have got him. I rememebr packs of like 20+ Yotes and nights of their screams/howls. I witnessed all kinds of things riding horses in the hills. Since we don't have wolves here all the damage was done by the little scavengers. Never heard one complaint about neighbor dogs killing livestock while I lived up there.

Do keep your dog from roaming around livestock. All it takes is a farmers inkling that your dog did something and he can shoot on his property. GSD's make a good scapegoat when a farmer wants restitution. Packs of dogs are notorious for doing behaviours you woud never see them act on alone. Keep your dog away from other roamers and he will more than likely be OK. Fences are always a good idea if you have a dog no matter where you live.

Thanks all for the comments.  I just had never heard of a GSD doing that.

He is building a fence right now so that is being done.  It just sounded a bit weird to me that's why I asked on the board.

Thanks again.

A calf can be killed by one dog.  A cow can be killed by three or so dogs, depending on her size and heartiness.  The dogs go for their utters and tear up a milk cow so that she's useless, and badly injured.  She can die from infection later.

When I had a farm several years ago in Arkansas, I lost a lot of poultry and some livestock due to the neightbor's dogs packing up and attacking them.  They killed an entire flock of 10 Eastern Wild Turkeys that were just pets on our property, raised from chicks to be pets.  The tom came up to people to visit and be petted anytime you walked out into the fenced yard, and even the hens were very tame. All torn to shreds by the neighbors dogs.  We had a large pig that was attacked by three dogs, the dogs were not even all that big, about 35-50 pounds, they tore his guts out through his anus before I could manage to run them off...I was out there fighting and hitting at dogs with an ax while they played tag with each other against me while ripping the pig up...the pig was screaming as they gutted it from the anus.  I had to shoot the pig to put him out of his misery, he was beyond the help of veterinary medicine.  They attacked a 17 hand horse (5 feet 8 inches tall at the top of the shoulder) I had on the property, cutting up his legs and tearing most of the hair out of his tail by attacking him from behind like the pig, attempting to do the same thing to him.  He was not injured seriously though he did require treatment, his nerves were shattered, he was terrified, and it took months for the hair to grow back out sufficiently to cover the bare skin of his dock.  They tried to attack foals and goats, nearly successful with the mares banding up to protect each other.  They killed chickens.  They attacked the neighbors cows, killed calves and seriously injured cows. 

The neighbors never did anything about it, no matter how you talked to them.  "Dogs will be dogs".  The farmer with the cows put out a bunch of poison, amongst other things having to be done to get rid of the predatory pet dogs.  The dog population dropped significantly in the area.

Veronica

Coyotes can do so much damage to a herd its unbelievable. In my area there are 3 different Coyote Hunters the farmers and Ranchers will call to rid them of a Coyote problem.

Coyote hunters all have a pack of chase dogs which are Greyhounds. The hunters always have some type of big truck with spot lights and an apparatus where the hounds can be released in an instant.  When they sight the Coyote-Coyotes with the spots, the hounds are released and the chase is on. When the greyhounds corner or catch the prey, the hunter then releases their kill dog to end it.

Out here one uses a Greyhound-Wolf cross as a Killdog, another uses a Greyhound-Irish Wolfhound cross, and one uses a big Pitbull as his Killdog. 

2 weeks ago, I was delivered propane for the cold weather to come. The man who delivered the propane is one of these hunters. He was telling me about the Coyote they got a few nights ago. He said it weighed out at 62lbs. He said it was all coyote. He went on to explain, when the chase dogs had the coyote gassed and cornered he released his Killdog which is the Greyhound-Irish Wolfhound. As the fight went on the big Coyote was getting the better of the Killdog. The hunter needed to get his 357 and dispatch the Coyote.

A Coyote, is a very dangerous predator. They can cause a lot of damage with their bite.  I have known and once even seen a hungry pack of Coyotes send in a bitch to play with a farm dog in order to lead it off, where the pack can kill it and feed.

This is the friend that Scholty speaks of ...  I acquired a stray female 1 YO GSD, and am entirely new to this breed.

I have been back and forth on this, whether to build a fence, keep her inside, or put her down.  She does have heart worms so we cannot find a taker.  Our family has absolutely fallen in love with this dog, and she is the absolute greatest looking and behaved dog I have personally been around.  So putting her down was not a real option, but fences are not cheap, especially one that would allow her enough room to roam.

We talked to the local GSD breeder/rescue service, and she seems to think the dog was brought up as an inside dog, and is not adjusting well to being left outside.  This is actually pretty good news as we were intending on keeping her inside at night, and build enough of a fence to allow her to roam around a bit during the day.  Two nights and so far so good.

And to clarify about the Rancher, he is a very nice man.  And he has been in the business for his entire life as it has been passed down from generation to generation.  My theory is that the calf was already sick and the dogs just ran him to death (If they did kill it).  But there was zero blood on my dog, and I bathed her last night so I am sure I could have seen at least a bit.  And he said not to worry about the money as long as the dog did not return to his property.  If he caught her on the property again he would get the authorities invloved after shooting her.  Can't blame him for that, it is his living after all.

We are going to try our best to keep her.  She is part of the family and my daughter was crushed at the thought of putting her down.

it would also be very difficult for the farmer to get "restitution" in the form of $$$$$$ for the worth of his dead cow, from the coyotes.  Maybe he's trying to get payback by blaming the closest dog who has been seen running loose (and running the cattle????) -

molly

It should be painfully obvious whether the calf was run to death or killed by jaws and teeth.  Didn't this nice Rancher go into detail?