Made in USA ??? - Page 1

Folks, I'd like to get some clarification on this concept of the "American" GSD.  The topic was brought up in the NASS commentary thread but it got buried and I still am not sure if I got the facts straight.

Which of the following scenarios represents an "American" GSD?

1)  Bitch bred in Germany to German male is bought and shipped pregnant to the US and she have her puppies on American soil.  Puppies are "American"?

2) Bitch born in the US and sent to Austria to be bred.  Returns to US and has her puppies.  Puppies are "American"?

3) Male born in the US and sent to Holland to be bred.  Puppies from that breeding brought back to US.  Puppies are "American"?

4) Established American breeder of GSD's imports two dogs from Belgium, breeds them in the US, and puppies born in the US.  Puppies are "American"?

5) Established American breeder of GSD's imports only one dog from Belgium and breeds to US bred dog.  Puppies are "American"?

6) German guy moves to the US and brings his dogs with him and registers them with AKC.  Breeds them.  Puppies are "American"?

7) Two dogs bred in the US are shipped to Germany to get trained, titled, breed surveyed - the whole nine yards.  Dogs return to US and are bred.  Puppies are "American"?

8) Two dogs bred in the US stay in the US get bred in the US.  Puppies are "American"?

Yvette

This is all TRUE...If born in the US...then American...ya?

Great question SchBabe, I still consider "American" shepherd those ugly wobbly beasts, so even though my dogs mother was born and bred here, father was imported, I don't call my dog an American GSD. Just a GSD with WG lines.

There is American-BRED and there is American BLOODLINES.

All of the dogs you describe COULD be Euro BLOODLINES, or some could be "half-breeds" (for lack of better phrase) with both "bloodlines".  Not enough info to tell.

Of course any dog bred/whelped IN the US is American-bred.

But the long-legged long-snouted Collie-headed dogs are the penultimate "American BLOODLINES".  (BTW, the "BYB" dogs are alot different from the show dogs in America - alot; and I'd say generally they're making the dogs truest to pure GS form, unlike the elites of both sides of the pond.)

If Americans bred more of the Euro type, then you'd no longer have "American (show) lines".  But even if they changed tac to the old standard beautiful natural GS, and were still different from the roach-backed oversized bear-headed heavy-built Euro show lines, they'd still have to be called "American lines" to distinguish from a clearly different type.  ;-)

I thought american german shepherds had nanes like "Midnites runnig madmans bluff"  or the like?

I may get crusified for this but her is my thoughts on the subject.

An american breed shepherd most likley is not breed to the standard but to the whim or personnell preference of the breeder example long coats,whites,oversized,ect... with no thought to the workabality of the breed. or betterment of the breed. Bred to be (in there opinion ) the shepherd dog.

I think all German shepherds are just that German shepherds, just some with poorly thought out breedings (or no thought at all)  I have a male i imported at 8 weeks of age i,m currently in the process of buying a 23 month old female from germany if all goes well with the new female (titling,hip ratings,temperment,ect....) I will breed my male to her and make a litter is it a American breeding ya it,s done here in america but it is still German shephed dogs.

this may not help but it is my opinion for what it is worth.

let the stone throwing begin.

They list where the dog is born, plain and simple.

Bob, I won't crucify you, but you do have to realize the dominant "American" type has nothing to do with long coats or whites.  Not that I think there is anything wrong with that - they existed in the beginning and while even von Stephanitz had preferences for some [not all] good reasons, he himself said "no good dog is a bad color" and so on.

The American "classic" now and for 30 years is thin and narrow, possibly tall, long-legged (much more so than "over-angulated"), high carriage (90-deg neck to back), Collie-headed (no stop), very-big-earred.  The long-leggedness makes them sloppy walkers who walk like Paso Fino horses trot (which is desired, BTW), throwing out their feet because they would scrape the ground otherwise.  And personally I don't find their trots "beautiful".

I have many criticisms of the typical German dogs, too, especially the show lines.  Funny how the Germans can't agree on the best type there, yet somehow "German" is "not cliquish" and "very concerned about proper type and ability".  Nonsense.  Even Americans don't have "2 types" per se - just the American (show), and everything else that's just pets with no organization, which happens naturally in most places anyway.  (There are 2 slightly different types - "specialty" and "all-breed", but often the uninitiated can't tell the difference, which is less than between "show" and "working".  The irony is that the all-breed is better - proves again my theory that people who are so worried about just their breed are often the 1s to ruin it; they can't see the forest for the trees.)

It's probably not a solid answer but subject to opinion still at this point. My opinion is if it was bred there but born here it is still German. If both parents are imported and belong to Americans and the pups were born here, they are American bred dogs,but only iof the breeding took place here not in Germany. After all if an American goes through the trouble, time , money and thought to make it happen why shouldn't we get the credit? I'm sure others work it out differntly.

Which of the following scenarios represents an "American" GSD?

1)  Bitch bred in Germany to German male is bought and shipped pregnant to the US and she have her puppies on American soil.  Puppies are "American"? German, the pups were only blessed with American soil, that's about the extent of it.

2) Bitch born in the US and sent to Austria to be bred.  Returns to US and has her puppies.  Puppies are "American"? American/Austrian

3) Male born in the US and sent to Holland to be bred.  Puppies from that breeding brought back to US.  Puppies are "American"? Getting in deeper but since dad is American bred I would say American/Holland bred for the pups as mom is not at all American.

4) Established American breeder of GSD's imports two dogs from Belgium, breeds them in the US, and puppies born in the US.  Puppies are "American"? Belgian Bred, if both parents were born and bred there.

5) Established American breeder of GSD's imports only one dog from Belgium and breeds to US bred dog.  Puppies are "American"? American if the breeding took place on US soil.

6) German guy moves to the US and brings his dogs with him and registers them with AKC.  Breeds them.  Puppies are "American"? Hee hee hee hmmm...Same as a person who imports 2 dogs and breeds them in the US. I would say American

7) Two dogs bred in the US are shipped to Germany to get trained, titled, breed surveyed - the whole nine yards.  Dogs return to US and are bred.  Puppies are "American"? American, that is were they were born and their home they return to.

8) Two dogs bred in the US stay in the US get bred in the US.  Puppies are "American"? I would hope we could safely say American.