Red dogs - Page 1

Anyone have any leads on red pups -- either B/R with little black or deeply red sable without lots of black?  Not clear on where to look for this color.  I know I shouldn't be thinking about color - please don't flame me.  Work ability, health count, too... But I am interested in deeply red sable female (not a dark black sable) or a B/R female pup without mask.

You do realize what you are asking for is not really desirable or even necessarily acceptable (poor pigment), it almost sounds like you want a solid red GSD.  They're not really supposed to come like that... how about posting a pic similar to what you are looking for before you unjustly get chastized for supporting the "rare GSD" breeders, lol.

Bucko, Zidane is a red sable one of my stud dogs. I had a red sable male but I am keeping him for myself his name is Zimoot Vom Alk. I love the red sables but they are hard to find he mostly throws a darker solid black sable but every once in a while will throw a solid red one like him. He has a dark over coat of course but is very red in his color dont know about this being not desirable I love the color myself he is a working line dog and not show so not sure if this is what type of bloodlines you are after. Take a look at Zidane on my website www.alabamak9.com  Thank you Marlene

Hi Marlene, Zindane is not what I was referring to...he is a gorgeous typical red sable.  I was talking about Bucko wanting a deeply red sable without lots of black...if Zindane's coat type is what he was talking about I stand corrected.

GSDFan, Oh I did not take offense I know very little on the things many show people do about correct color. Yes Zidane does have the dark over lay how ever you say it but he is a true red sable and we have had only one from him. He was red like a fox is red when little but now at six months is turning darker ever day and will end up like his sire in color. I love the red sables but they are hard to find.  Marlene

There are some red sables on this thread -

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/bulletins_read/136679.html#136748

My Beckett is a red sable, he is developing a dark sable overcoat, and a very dark mask, but when you part the guard hairs, he is red to reddish-tan, with dark red legs with pencilling, and he had tar heels, but that is fading. But his red is such a vibrant color, especially on his legs, that people always comment on it! I even had a guy roll down his car window when Beckett & I were out in our car one day to shout across 3 lanes of traffic about how much he liked how red Beckett looked! (Sorry, I'm  proud of my boy!) jo PS-he will be 1 year old on Saturday

Beckett's mother, Gabi, is a red sable. I am breeding her to a bi-color dog next time, with deep red markings, so she will likely throw a couple of reds. I just hope I didn't miss her heat when I was in St. Louis...

SS

Shelley, Zidane is my first red sable I find he throws more dark sables than red like himself no matter what color the females are is this usual for the reds? I breed him to sables they are dark sables, I have breed him to solid black and bi colors and still all dark sables for the most part ,this one male whom I kept and one other are the only two reds from him thus far.  Marlene

Isn't the aesthetic desire for "pigment" a desire for deep undercoat color?  That is, don't the breed fashionistas prefer black and red to black and tan to black and cream to black and silver? 

And in an agouti dog doesn't this mean it is the background color that counts when discussing pigment? Pigment is in the red, not the black tipping/banding, right? 

So wouldn't a deeply red sable with less black have "better" pigment than a tan or cream dog with a lot of black? 

Am I wrong?

I know that sables in the US are labeled strangely: when the background is deep, its called a red sable and when the tipping is extreme, its called a black sable -- where the color labels refer to two different things.  The sable modifier is whichever is stronger: the background (red) or the tipping (black).  Iconoclasts who like to buck the fashionistas then label their dogs silver sables (emphasizing the LACK of pigment underneath -- and so the wolfey look of it).  In some other breeds, the Mal red sable gene and look is called a clear sable, and there are a few nice gsd's who look like this, still.

Here's a question: If you breed a dog with lots of deep red background with less black tipping to a B/T dog, the pups would have their pigment improved, as I understand it.  If you breed a dog with lots of black tipping and light undercoat (say a silver sable) to a B/T dog, the pups would have their pigment faded out.

Or am I wrong?

Of course, all of this worry is only if this working breed is fussy about color, which it really shouldn't be, I know.

And what ever happened to those lovely old gsd's who were saddle backed B/T dogs with a nice tan (I think brown eyes look darker and prettier against a tan face, than against a black or red face) and not that much mask?  I say there should be as much variety as possible!