EPI - Page 1

Doe,s anyone on here know of any  gsd lines that carry the resessive gene for EPI? Someone on here mentioned having an Ursus son who had this dreadfull illness. I am concerned because I have an Ursus grandson.

Thank you for any answers.                                                                                               KeyCat

There are evidently a bunch of them because this year we have had several threads on this subject and quit a few people coming forth with the EPI     hope they all read this and come back to help .

Mine is an Ursus grandaughter and she has it. But, I think it is more common with W. German Showlines in general. Maybe it seems more of the Ursus line because he was used so extensively? Perhaps statistically  these lines don't have any more than other showlines? Just a thought.

Put EPI in your search message board function. Very recently there was a thread and it referenced a database with this information. I keep meaning to go to that site but never get around to it.

Dawgs:  That is why the matting between the two dogs on another thread is  not a good idea....breeders have got to quit breeding with the same dogs in the top and the bottom and then ad another pedigree with one of those same dogs two more times.......so may metabolic mix ups go b zerk in the genes....i dont know beans about genetics  too confusing...but I do study matches and pedigrees and listen to the problems discussed among some certain lines that are proned to carry a certain gene carrying the bad stuff...

That's the way it seems to me. Linebreeding/close breeding seems to be a double edged sword.  More amplification of the good but also of the bad. It's all a mystery to me. My girl is linebred on Ursus. My boy has no common anscestry. So many traits my girl has that are positive are what I have read she gets from Ursus, though.

I love them both and am relieved over and over I will never breed. Way too much responsiblily. I don't think I could ever feel confident that I would do it right. Luckily I have found a lot of places to get dogs I will feel comfortable with and at more realistic prices.

Live and learn, I guess.

One of my girls has EPI. Her lines go back to Jeck v. Norium,vom Grafental, vom Kirschental, and von der Wienerau, along with some others. I have a good friend who just got the EPI diagnosis on his AmBred girl (who has nice lines in the American world, and go back to some German lines).  Yahoo has the EPI group.  Right now, that EPI group is working with the University of Texas on their EPI study - right now they're looking for funding for several studies they want to do... Unfortunately, they still don't have a good handle on how/why it occurs. In my case, my bitch is the only one from all of the litters from same breeding that came up with it and she didn't show until she was 3. It's a good thing that she was having reproductive issues and I decided to spay her -otherwise, there would have been puppies out there, carrying the genes. It's a bad, bad thing.  My vet has said that German Shpeherds are writing their own book on EPI - apparently they don't stick to the classic symptoms - go figure!!

The surest way to get a diganosis is to have a TLI test done. It measures the amount of function that the pancreas has.

Here are a few symptoms...

1) foul stool odor and looks like pudding with a distinct color
2) extremely gassy
3) ravenous appetite, will eat just about ANYTHING including their own stool
4) dull looking coat
5) major weight loss in a short period of time

Remedy: Viokase-V - 2 teaspoons with every meal.

Links you can check that explain more about EPI....
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_exocrine_pancreatic_insufficie.html

http://www.wsgenetics.org/epi.htm

My dog only had one of these symptoms; Major weight loss in a short period of time.  Her other symptom was large, frequent stools.  Sometimes 6 x a day.  Also mucous covered, but formed stools, which I'm sure was from the SIBO that quite often accompanies EPI.  I don't know if there is a scientific study, but I don't think it is linked to any certain lines.  I could be wrong.

Rozoan

My bitch has been diagnosed with Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth, this causes her weight loss, loss of appetite, frequent loose stools and tummy pains which can make her a bit aggressive.  The condition (possibly the pain of it) also led to her having neuro problems including head nodding, loss of balance, etc.  i know this is not the condition you have queried, thank God she tested negative to EPI, but it has some similar symptoms.

It took us nearly two years to find out what was wrong with, and we just can't get her right, it causes such problems & is financially crippling.  Yet she is a happy little thing.  She is by  a Dutch son of Erasmus.

The latest from TAMU is that it is not a single gene, but EPI can also be the result of repeated bouts of acute pancreatitis. For those that have a dog with EPI, the best group on the net is http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/k9-EPIGLOBAL. My hat is off toany breeder that decides not to breed their EPI dog.

I've seen statements on this board saying that EPI is reversable. It's not. Once the pancreatic cells are dead, they don't recover.. The treatment for EPI is life-long treatment with enzymes. Most dogs live normal lives and are active in various activities, SAR, agility (see the dog  "Jive" on YOUTUBE) and service dogs. Approximately 70% of all dogs with EPI are GSDs.

The definitive test for EPI is the cTLI. Some EPI dogs also develop SIBO, treatable by Tylosin or Metro.

Larry