Do they make them like this anymore? - Page 1

Bernd was VA show and V work and is one of my old-time favs (although I confess I liked his "big" brother Bodo, perhaps more.)

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/187.html

1) How there many VA dogs doing V work in real trials these days?  If so, who?

2) Would any of you show-savvy folks be willing to say how Bernd would do today in the show ring?

Ausreichend or maybe a Good

Ilse: what is wrong with him by modern standards?  That's interesting.

Not intentially as a rule. Back in Bernd's day the show and working lines were the SAME lines. The split came with the long reign of the Martin brothers, Herman and Walter (Weinerau and Arminius kennels).

Bernd would likely get a G rating today, KK2.

The only show dog I know of actually competing in trials regularly is VA Andrushka van Noort, although I would love to step on the trial field at a major US event with VA Ronaldo vom Zellergrund at my side! (Please, oh pretty please Randy? I promise you can have him back in 2 or 3 years... after we finish in the Top 10 at the nationals and make Universal Sieger two or three times...  :)

That isn't to say there aren't a lot more, but those are the ones in my "top of mind awareness" right now.

SS

No idea what show rating he would get, but for athleticism and agility he's hard to fault standing still.  Looks to me like a dog that could get it done.

Bernd back then is more what the working type is today. The split did not come til about 10 years later. Structure alone is not what goes into a show rating though. If the dog is presented well and shows himself well in the ring he can make some decent gains from what you see in just the stack. Photos can also be very unflattering. Plus with a good BSP result under his belt and under consideration of his other good qualities he would probably be an SG dog, quite possibly with KKL1 today. Without that, as a normal dog, yes more likely G. Can still KKL1 with a G... depending on how a G dog will impress the Koermaster.

There are some show lines out there that can still do the work and pass it on. I just had one of my show line females bred in Germany to a bit of a rarity among show line dogs - a nice show line male that has actively competed at the LGA. He reproduces his working ability, including a bit of a civil touch, good confidence and nice drives and most of all good handling abilities and pups that are clear in the head. A VA Vando Moorbeck son. Litter will be Urus free and line bred to Merri vom Hirschel (Vandos dam, fantastic female!) and Ica vom Haus Reiterland (also top producing female). Nice dam to round off the picture. Expecting nice type and working ability. Interested parties can eMail me, will be accepting a few reservations. Litter will probably be whelped in North America.

OK, how about this one?

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/5377.html

 A little later than Bernd, perhaps just when the split was happening.  Conformation winners on the top, working winners on the bottom.  Anyone know much about him?  He shows up lurking in some of the working line pedigrees.  I had one of his granddaughters.  She was very smart and loved to work. 

Dash2

Ah, Bernd and Bodo.

They were real German Shepherds.

At least as far as conformation.  None of the ridiculous roach-backs and subsequent exagerated odd trotting gait as now.  (Who ever heard of a Greyhound's back being good for trotting?)

Solid dogs, the proper conformation, if you ask me.

Dash2-

Ahhhh, Benny Heideloh...

Actually your analysis of show dogs on top and working dogs on the bottom is not quite accurate. Drigon was a super working dog, produced Uwe and Uran Kirschental, found in a lot of working dogs' pedigrees even today, among many others. Back then the line between show and working dogs was still not carved in stone. We used to see a lot of Mutz in our working dogs' pedigrees in the 80's, often crossed with Marko Cellerland, Racker Itztal, Enno Antreftal. Grando Schloss Veitenstein, a true "chef" producer of beautiful worling dogs, was line-bred on Mutz. Dieter Nitschke (sp?) one of my all-time favorite breeders of  great looking working dogs and great working show dogs, used Mutz lines heavily.

We are still seeing good working dogs linebred on Benny today, although one more generation and he'll doubtless be off the 5 gen pedigrees.

SS

Reigning Weltsiegerin Gina vom Aquamarin, SchH3 IP3 FH2 competed successfully at the DVG, in between being campaigned in the show ring and whelping a litter early this year. Can anybody name one VA-dog who has done that, especially during an active show career? She and Pakros were also featured in a big German talk show! It was great to see her being so cool (Pakros came later).

Chris (a devoted Gina-fan)