Universal Seiger & Golden Middle - Page 1

We all have opinions on what the "Golden Middle" is and whether it's worthwhile to breed dogs who would represent the "Golden Middle".  As it has been described to me, the "Golden Middle" is a dog that can EXCEL in BOTH the Conformation Ring AND on the trial field and/or herding work and/or police work.  Not a dog who can "kind of" work and is "kind of " pretty.  That being said, aren't those who are breeding dogs who are real contenders for the Universal Seiger/Seigren titles the ones are truly breeding "Golden Middle" dogs? 

yup.  That sounds good.

Please don;t be misled by pure marketing terms. I have personally seen, Show dogs which can bite like working lines and have excellent working temprament. Similarly there are working dogs with V rating.

All this golden middle stuff is to purely to overcome human judges  biasis rather than dog issues. There are excellent conformation working line dogs and there are excellent show dogs which have working capability.

cheers

BIASES  like one-sided people... affect not only the owner but the dogs themselves... but... could never said it better than how SUEINCC said it about the TRUE GOLDEN MIDDLE dogs...

Let's put aside those irreputable breeders who use marketing ploys to sell their dogs/puppies.  Unfortunately, many did pick up on the term, love it & use it to sell puppies.  I am not sure they even understand what the term means.  

Dang Sue, I thought this would start a popcorn thread.  I could sit back with a big bucket of popcorn and be amused.    Didn't work though.  

Good job on your description.

I don't like the term golden middle !

I like to call those type of dogs balanced GSD :))

a dog can come over a total working line pedigree and have correct structure  =balance

a showline dog can have correct temperament and fighting desire willingness to work = balance !!

due to the huge split in the lines the term golden middle came about  .

 a breeder that is seeking  to produce dogs that can work and dogs that look good is seeking balance in their breeding program .

Happily, we are seeing more and more "Golden Middle" dogs these days. Working breeders got tired of looking at snipy coyotes and show breeders got tired of failing the bitwework. It a tough thing to juggle, often taking 2-3 generations to bring the desired (missing) traits back into your line, but done more and more often on both sides at last.

SS

shelley - sent you a PM

I have to agree with Shelley. True advocates of the "Golden Middle" (Pia is right: The term "balanced" sounds a lot better) see that a lot of workingline dogs are getting so ugly that they are far removed from the standard and some showlines are scared of their own shadows, much like a lot of American bred ones. Dieter Nitschke (Schloss Veitenstein) has summed it up when he said that WL breeders need to look for structure again and SL breeders for dogs which can stand up to pressure. He rightfully stated that showlines are not really lacking drive, they lack the ability for obedience. I am happy to see big breeders like Kirschental, Bad-Boll, Arlett, Laerchenhain and others try to "mix", but anybody who is waiting for these dogs to excel either at the BSZS or the BSP is most likely going to be disappointed. There is no quick-fix, it will take several generations. I am just hoping that these dogs will be raised, titled and surveyed quietly and used for breeding again. Also, please remember that it takes more than a breeder to produce these kind of dogs. I have to appeal to dog sport people and show people alike (besides the judges on both sides) to accept these dogs and give them a chance by using them. In addition, I would like to see dogs other than the "cookie cutter style" black and reds (my husband's term) in the showring. It is often disheartening to not get placements the dog would deserve though, because he or she is a sable or any other color. At the same time, it is sad to hear unsportsmanlike remarks at trials about the participation of "black and red ones".  The owners on both sides who show a "thick skin" and ignore these things have my honest and utmost respect. It is hard to be different, or to swim again the stream. I have heard statements that it is not possible to bring these lines together again, and I do not believe it. Yes, it is! But I am very pessimistic about it, due to the unwillingness on both sides to try. We only have to have the desire and cooperation to do so, much like "developing" a breed. And statements like, the WL are better because they don't look roached or the SL are the true representatives are downright nonsense. Both sides can contribute equally and be valuable.

To sum up: Regardless of what a breeder's emphasis is in his program, the most important aspects are (and in this order only!!!!): Health and Longevity, temperament, structure! All of that should go hand in hand!

Chris