Definition of “very strong dog” - Page 1

Post idea taken off of Opinions please on VA Fabian vom Mittelwest topic

Molly posted “I would first ask your definition of "very strong dog" before going any farther with recommendations of stud dogs.

molly”

Molly.. I define "very strong dog" as a dog who has an outstanding drives with solid steel nerves. The dog who is labeled “very strong dog” in my opinion has a greater risk to succeed with possible achievements in national level Schutzhund but also have the capability and qualification to compete in internationals (WUSV) as well.

Whats your definition of “very strong dog” Molly? What in your opinion can a “very strong dog” could possibly achieve?

Thats a lovely definition but the problem with that is many people would not know strong nerves if it slapped them in the face. The sad truth is, more and more breeders/trainers are equating hyperactivity with drive, and if the dog isnt squealing, flipping over the end of the lead and foaming for a rag/tug/sleeve, the dog is crap.  If the dog is quiet and calm and watchful, it doesnt matter how much strength the dog explodes with, too many people can't see past that in my humble opinion. Just like they can't see past color or pedigree.  Any natural suspicion and or aloofness is written off as nerviness, when sometimes it is, and sometimes it isn't. It really boils down to opinion, and an individual's ability to correctly read a dog. One person might feel a dog has a strong grip, while another is unimpressed, etc.

Each individual breeder has an eye for what they like to see, and as long as they are producing dogs that are capable of sport/service(sar/k9, etc) and are healthy and sound, the belittling, mudslinging, and self-righteousness is really quite pointless.  I remember when this board was a productive place to discuss training/bloodlines/breeding, etc....I come back a few years later and now its just a den of gossip and people who get in each others business. Who cares. Worry about loving and training your own dogs.

KCzaja-  Well said.  I agree.  In fact I myself would not have known the difference had it not been for asking my trainer a lot of questions trying to learn to read and understand my own dog.  Much of the questions I had about the dog would always start off with something like "I saw so and so's dog react a certain way to let's say a certain situation and my dog responded a totally different way; why?"  So he'd typically respond with "your dog has extremely strong nerves, much confidence, wired much differently than so and so's dog".  Certain times I agree with you that people misunderstand a dog as being "weak" or unimpressed with his/her performance if that dog doesn't put on a good show.  But the reality is a strong stable dog doesn't need to put on a "show" because he already knows he can handle the situation if it gets to that point.  No need to overexert him/herself for nothing. lol  And yes we all like to see different things we specifically like in a particular dog; nothing wrong with that in my book.

KCzaja - yep.  Right on the money.  Which is why, in the previous thread, I asked the topic-starter what HE thinks "very strong" is, because he's the one asking about a stud dog and wants his choice to be "very strong".  Obviously many people's opinions were that this dog is "very strong" with 'nerves of steel" and my opinion definately differs.  So, the poster can decide the dog is "strong enough" for his program, or if he wants to think he's "very strong" judging on people's opinions of him, that's up to him.  It's all a matter of personal opinion.  I think that most people with show-line dogs think that a dog that stays with the helper, has nice full grips and doesn't run for the hills is "very strong".  I say that 99% of them are ranging from "moderately strong" to "extremely weak".  I've seen some (very few) good ones, but they are so very few IMO.  But it is true the show-line dogs are not bred for "very strong" in the work.  They are bred for show, and work comes second.  So "moderately strong" may very well be good enough.  If they don't leave the helper, can take the threat and the stick hits, and seem to want to be there, then that is indeed probably 'good enough'.  If you want "very strong" IMO go look at a V-rated working-line dog (who is very strong in the work)  to improve drive and strength in the work for your breeding program.

molly