"Breeders" who only breed for money

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by shasta on 02 October 2007 - 01:10

These kind of people are so irritating to me! Especially because I'm working extra hard to make sure my dogs are breed quality BEFORE I consider the litter. Time will go into the study of the pedigrees, training for titles, health checks etc. Then there will be plenty of time put into the raising of pups to help them develop into nice happy little guys. I have nice dogs with excellent pedigrees but I'm waiting for age to be in their favor as well as getting titles. And yet I keep running into breeders who just don't care about anything but the money. For instance. One of my dogs came from a "breeder" who didn't really have a clue. (I did not choose to purchase this pup, I kind of got stuck in it...was supposed to get pups in exchange for my adult dog but when I found that this person was not the "forever home" he had portrayed himself to be but was in fact a broker in hiding who put the dog up for sale within a few months of my retiring him, I had to get contact my lawyer and threaten a lawsuit to get the adult dog back, but because I had already placed the one pup I had received for the retired dog with a co-owner who loved the pup I ended up having to turn around and buy her..the pup...long story noless) Anyways, the pedigree was decent. I liked what I saw from that. Some of the things were my fault. Someone had referred this person to me as a home for my older guy. I didn't do my homework very well. I met the man and saw his female and saw that she was well taken care of at the time but I did not check paperwork on the female. She was bred to another dog and I received a pup from that litter. The dams hips were not OFA'd, no titles (though she would have been capable of it) and it was until later that there was a hold up in the paperwork because the "breeder" had not even registered her in his name yet. Wanted me to name his kennel for him (no kennel name) and it took quite a while for the paperwork (though it did finally come...some of the hold up was not his fault but the stud owner needed to DNA). When we went to get the pup they were in a garage (ok, so maybe most pups are) but they smelled to high heavens. It didn't LOOK dirty, but boy were they stinky. This guy kept acting like he knew something about working dogs, but then would ask questions that made me suspicious. Before we had gotten the paperwork he was contacting me to put him in touch with a friend who has another stud he wanted to breed to. That would have been the next heat cycle for his female and I was still waiting for paperwork on the first litter.

by shasta on 02 October 2007 - 01:10

(continued) I think there are people who have done worse. At least the pedigree was nice on this girl. HER hips are fine (according to prelim so far) and grandparents are fine. But he was trying to breed the female again and still no clue. It was obvious it was all about the money for this person. As evidenced by the fact that I gave him my old dog because he wanted a protection dog for his wife and luckily I had a contract with first right of refusal, I had to fight to get the dog back though and pull in a lawyer to make sure I could do it..because he had the dog up for sale on the internet. I wasn't the only one that got this sense from him (that it's all about the money). It was definitely like that with the pups too. He kept offering me a cut if I helped him sell the pups. I've never been into the money thing...maybe why I'm broke half the time, but I do what I do out of love of the dog and finding the right match for the right person. I may have to get tougher when I start doing my own breeding program...but I DO have ethics and standards guiding me. A sense of right and wrong. I just find it ultra irritating when people mess with living breathing beings for money. There is a difference between making a small profit on a well planned, well cared for litter; and not having a clue while skipping some vital steps (female was just under 2 when bred, not OFA'd yet, no titles) but just breeding because you can. For those of you who go "off" about requiring titles to breed, fine...if you want to breed and sell to the pet owning public. But these dogs came down from some tough and drivey lines. The pups (2 that I know personally) are tough and drivey dogs. If you're breeding working litters like that that should be placed into working homes, why on earth wouldn't you make some attempt to put ANY title on them? God bless those breeders out there who do so to benefit the breed and the working capabilities of the dogs they love. Shame on those who do it for the money

by maligator on 02 October 2007 - 03:10

Don't some people just suck...This sounds like the idiot who emailed me wanting to breed to my (untitled, unOFA'd, "underage") Tiekerhook male because he wanted to breed pets with a good pedigree. Good pedigree, yes, but how is a beginner "breeder" supposed to predict how these lines are going to mesh when the guy hasn't ever even gotten a BH on a dog or been in the sport longer than...oh that's right, he's not even training for anything! *groan* I seriously doubt anyone like this would give a flying fart WHO those puppies were going to beyond who had the cash at the moment, and what was going to happen when those puppies matured and needed worked ('cause these are working lines!) instead of sitting around the house? Breeders like that aren't going to be responsible for those puppies in the long run, whether they spout off a guarantee or not. A guarantee is only as good as the breeder who holds it up, the words on paper don't mean jack. Least not until ya call the lawyer :-) Rescue is busy enough cleaning up messes from idiot "breeders" who don't know what the heck they're doing.

There are just too many jerks out there like this. You can't teach people ethics and any sense of responsibility to the breed. All they care about is exploiting the kennel names of top breeders (who have worked for decades to create a great line of dogs), just to throw two dogs together and "see what happens". It bothers me on an unbelievable level. Almost as much as the people who title their nervebag piece-of-crap dogs and put them forth as breedworthy via fancy websites when everyone whose seen the dog in person knows they are crap and skimmed by those trials with santa claus judges. But, what can ya do.

Sorry for the rant, really...I've about had it with people this week. I just decided to stop holding back when my husband's idiot friends try to impress me by their breeding plans of their backyard-bred piece of crap dogs. At least if I am a b*tch to them then maybe they'll go away, ha. But seriously, so many of these people really don't see anything wrong with what they're doing. In their mind, they are in the right. And it's their dog, so it actually is. We can't do a thing about it except rant until we're blue in the face. Maybe someone out there will not be taken in. Sooo many people read on this site, the word will get out about your guy.

by VonIsengard on 02 October 2007 - 03:10

Welcome to the dog world shasta....people don't get smarter and it never gets less irritating. Hold yourselves and your dogs to a higher standard and pride yourself on that.

by yellowrose of Texas on 02 October 2007 - 04:10

Sounds like my recent experience ...are you in Texas, Shasta???????

by shasta on 02 October 2007 - 04:10

sad thing is I've been in the dog world most of my life and yet, nothing ceases to amaze me. Mali talks about how rescue cleans up the messes, so do the pro trainers. Because most of the other trainers in my area know I love shepherds and they know how I am with them, I get to see a LOT of shepherds in for training. I've seen the pet person who got sold a working dog that then can't handle it and they're being driven nuts, and no amount of training is lessening the stress in the household. And these are just the people willing to pay for training. There is no point in breeding just to get more dogs in the world. We have PLENTY of those. I've always thought I've seen it all, until I bump into someone who tops the cake. I have not personally bred up to this point because I see no point in doing so until I think that I have something to add to the breed. Or at least not make it worse. Maligator, that sounds like this guy, he kept wanting to breed to a tiekerhook dog...

by maligator on 02 October 2007 - 05:10

"I have not personally bred up to this point because I see no point in doing so until I think that I have something to add to the breed."

Ditto that. I figure when I have been in the sport long enough and seen enough dogs and know pedigrees better, then I might look into breeding, but then I'd want a mentor to help as well. Breeding is too complicated, best left to someone else lol :-)

This guy that contacted me wanted a Tiekerhook stud to breed to his Tarzan (Tiekerhook) daughter. I'm not sure if she came directly from Mr Hassing or not. Didn't get that far in the conversation :-)

by shasta on 02 October 2007 - 05:10

no yellowrose, I'm in Calif. (though I used to live in Beaumont Tx area for awhile:-)) Maligator, um, contact me...this actually sounds like the same person!

by agilhund on 03 October 2007 - 17:10

Just goes to show you that buyers as well as sellers need to research who they are dealing with. Get proof of OFA and other health clearance and proof of registration, litter registration and or ownership before buying a pup getting into a puppy back situation. Nothing worse than getting a dog and finding out there were problems with the sire or dam's registration, previous owner, ownership transfer or litter registration issues and you have little or no chance of getting papers.

Of course, this day and age some dishonest individuals will falsify almost any document.

by shasta on 03 October 2007 - 20:10

I knew it was partially my bad for not checking up. Partly it looked like they would be a good home for my old boy. Room to run and play in the yard, and the dog seemed to like the man (which is odd, because he was not a dog that liked men in general). Though I don't think he had as much handling experience as he said he did, who knows. I was one of the fortunate ones. I did have it in contract that the akc papers would be required for the purchase of the pupy to come through, and I know the man knew I was ready and willing to enforce it with the lawyer behind me...no papers, no sale. I did end up with the papers. But like I said, I was probably one of the lucky ones. I did not realize Maligator was who she is, turns out we know each other and the person she mentioned above is the same person. He is in it for the money, and has no clue. Wanted to breed to that stud which would have produced alot of linebreeding (fero three times, linebred on yoschy/mona, etc etc.) And because the female didn't have hips or titles you know that working people probably wouldn't consider it. So tougher lines, going into pet homes who wouldn't know how to handle them, and he doesn't care as long as there's money exchanging hands. Unbelievable. Or they would have gone into the homes of a novice, and he doesn't have a clue nor would he be able to advise them on their handling. This is why my job is so tough, because there's people in the world that would put dogs like this into the wrong homes because of the almighty dollar. Then call me and want me to make their square peg dog fit into their round hole home.

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