Working Question--How do you tell if she can work? - Page 1

Hi All,

Last Saturday we went to shud club, to see how they work there dogs. A gentlemen came up to us and starting asking us questions, very friendly. We told him we were trying to find a club to join and work our dogs. He asked what kind of training they had and i told him obideience and some tracking. He then asked if they were american, show or working. I responded with my girl is 14 months and a showline, he responded with, this.. Well I save you the trouble and time, showlines are just to look pretty and lay around, you need to get a different dog that can work. I stood there shocked a little bite. I told him we knew she was show, but feel since were learning it a step in the right direction with what we have. He said well, show me your dog pedigree and I can tell you with out even seeing the dog. He said the pedigree has to have at least the last 3-4 generation all titles or it will not do any good. During the conversation we tell him we drive about 1 1/2 hours each week just for training we been going to. for the last 6 months. So what do you think the impression of this club was for my husband. We watch for 1 1/2 hours, he not impressed with this guy, for just assumming and generally saying get another dog.

I understand that a lot of people show up and never come back after 2-3 weeks so why would a experience person help a newbie.

Now I thinking I have seen this guys face before, but cannot place it. So we watch and talk with others there, and then it makes complete since to me now, in the back of my mind. I know who this guy is and now wondering if I keep my mouth closed as my husband tell me all the time. He has no idea who he is. We leave and asks me well should we keep looking or what do you think.

Well what would you do?

Find a different club.....  There are clubs out there that will support you no matter what kind of dog you have.  Some may let you know not to expect as much from a show line but that doesn't mean you still can't go, learn, and enjoy your dog.  However, we've had a couple show lines in our club that work quite well.

I can safely say that there is one idiot in every club.  If you think your club doesn't have that idiot, well then it is you!  That is the reason SchH clubs are a bit harder to get into.  It is easy to let someone into your club but harder to get them out.  Clubs have to be very selective on who they let into their club.  If they make a mistake, they end up having to ignore idiots like the guy you met, for the next 10+ years.  Don't let the one idiot ruin your experience.  If everyone else was welcoming, I say go back.  That idiot may only go out there once every other month. 

Well,

My thought was to move on, but we do like the others in the club. We have been training with one person from this club for a while which he did not know. This person is a DVG judge, with many years of experience. I am not going to say anything bad about him, as he has the experience where we do not. We been going to clubs for the last year and this is the closest and friendliest of them.

Hey Willy - reminds me of a post not so long ago - check it out when you have a few HOURS to kill! LOL Seriously, been there done that - still have the show male that will EAT an intruder/threat ha ha ha...the "working" club I went to was full of people that wanted sleeve-happy play dogs with no real intent that couldn't be in the kitchen when the heat was put on....and we were told that was BAD! If someone breaks in my house, my GSD is not going to look for a sleeve on his arm to play with, I'll tell ya that! I am SO SO SO tired of people thinking if your dog is a pretty black and red GSD, it can't work...can't do schutzhund....can be nothing more than an expensive decorative couch potato. Don't give a second's thought about that moron. Stay and ignore him or find a better club! :) Every GSD deserves an opportunity to prove what is inside them no matter what COLOR they are or LINES they are or what someone else says about them! ;) [still talking about dogs]

I own some of the best working dogs in the world and they really work with precision, speed and accuracy.

I also have some show line working dogs that work great.

the pure working dogs work better but than the showline working dogs but the my show line working dogs works better than most full working dogs just not as good as the world's pure working top champions.

therefore, to me the the world's greatess working dogs will work better than a show dog but once you get beyond this level. however then it is every dog for himself. meaning that there are plenty of show lines that work better than working dogs and vice versa. so it really depends on the dog. there is nothing better than watching a beautiful show line that can really work and keep up with the pure working dogs.

it is worth the time and effort and it is very doable with the right dog.

jeffrey

LOL this reminds me of all the people on the racing fora saying some horse won't "get" the race distance because his pedigree is all wrong.  The pedigree is full of sprinters, so won't go route, etc.  Also some can't run on grass because their ped is all dirt, etc.

Never mind the numerous horses in history who have "defied" their pedigrees, sometimes to smashing success.

Pedigrees are nice, for sure - better for figuring a youngster with no experience.  A launching point.  But no matter what, genetics is still a "mad science" - and like Forrest Gump said, "you never know what you're going to get".

Let's see, I'm more familair with the horse world, so here's a few examples:

Snowman - show jumper, purchased from a truck bound for the dog food factory for $80. He was the American Horse Shows Association Horse of the Year in 1958 and 1959, and won many prizes and medals..

Stroller - won the silver medal in the individual jumping competiton at the 1968 Olympics. He was a registered Connemara pony. Yes, you read that right...a PONY, which means he was 14 hands or under. Most show jumpers are usually around 16 hands (a hand is 4 inches).

Nautical - a former cow pony, was a member of the U.S. Equestrian Team when they won a gold medal at the 1959 Olympics. He also won the King George V Gold Cup that same year.

So don't ever let ANYONE tell you what your dog or horse can or can't do, based on its pedigree (or lack of pedigree!)

Don't give up! This breed really needs some folks who have show line dogs that can actually work! I am sick to death of show line dogs that can't do the work! If there are more out there, get in a club, prove them wrong, and sit back and grin! Develop a tough skin! folks will razz you, laugh at you but once they see YOU are committed, the razzing actually becomes fun!

The problem as I see it, is that there are too many people who go to a club, hear the same thing you have heard, and figure that is the way it is. That is BS! To a certain degree, the person who said that to you is correct. However, the majority of show line aren't well trained at all. There is more time and effort put into running around a ring than there is in laying GOOD foundation work on the dog for the three phases. People rush through all the good stuff (training and learning about the sport and your dog) to get to what they think the icing on the cake is. Half the fun is the journey! There has got to be more show line dogs out there that can work. We just don't see them because their owner takes the easy way out. They send the dog away for training and titling. Then, when they get the dog, they don't put in the time and energy to know the dog or even know how to handle the dog. After all that, you rarely see the dog trial, rarely see the dog earn another title, all you see is a dog who runs around a ring!

Get out there! train, train, train, train, and when that is done, train some more! Do everything YOU can to prove them wrong! Set lofty goals! and don't give up!

Willy:

I have a showline female and am a novice.  When I first brought her over from Belgium, I took her to a local Schutzhund Trial to watch a friend compete.  My friend warned me that some people could offer some nasty comments about her being a show line.  She was correct, a few people could not resist making that statement as if it was the greatest fault she could have.  After careful consideration, I decided not to try and join a club as a novice with a novice show dog, but to find a really good trainer that trained in a group setting and see what she could do.  We have been working her for about 2 mos and she is coming along nicely.  What I find in going the trainer route vs club is that you get alot of help, quidance, etc on all aspects of the sport.  As a novice, I have alot to learn and this trainer is experienced and can switch between training me and my novice dog to helping experienced handlers with Schutzhund III dogs.  I also find that all the experienced handlers are willing to help the novices while they are training.  It is a great environment to learn, without the pressures associated with a club.  I think the perception that showline dogs cannot work makes me want to title her even more, just to proove them wrong and once we have proven ourselves, would like to join a club.

Keep trying to find the right place for you and your dog to train and I wish you best of luck in your future in Schutzhund. 

Cheryl