Dogs that spin during bark and holds... - Page 1

How would a dog (mal) spinning in front of the helper during a bark and hold be worked?  I do not think this nerve issue - the dog seemed solid in all respects, it just seemed to be boiling over with drive during the B&H. 

Thanks,

-Calvin

Try working the dog next to a barrier like a fence. The helper in front, the barrier on one side and you on the other to prevent the spinning. Have the helper present the bite only when the dog is barking and moving forward (not spinning).

Spinning is a hard habit to break. Be consistent. When the dog shows no urge to spin next to the barrier, move away from it slightly. Eventually you should work to the open field. But be dilligent and continue to block the dog from spinning.

Personally I can't stand dogs that spin in front of helpers - IMO it is an indication (strong one) of poor nerve-strength.  Or possibly a dog so "loaded" that they can't contain themselves, still nerve strength issue IMO as a dog with strong nerve should be able to focus while in a high state of drive.  How to fix it?  in my experience you can't - it's the dog's temperament.  You can correct it, try to work the dog in a calming way so they are not so loaded, but it will come out again the next time he loads high. 

molly

Spinning in front of the helper, for a fully mature dog who has been in training awhile, is a ticket out of my kennel. Youngsters may do that on the tie out for awhile, but once working free I want to see them focus on the helper. Can't do that with your back turned. A couple of pops of the whip on their butt usually convinces them that they'd better pay attention. If not... Adios amigo. Spinning or moving around too much (leaving guarding position) after the out is grounds for termination around here. It screams "Bad Nerves!" The only allowed to do that is ME. Ha ha ha.

SS

PS: I  hide under the bed on the 4th of July, to my dogs' shame and humiliation. They peer under and stare at me with looks that say "What's WRONG with you???"

ha..ha..ha.. shelley,

Thats a good one... "under the bed"...

I noticed dogs doing the SPIN  is common on smaller breeds... Just thinking... maybe their  way of boosting their confidence like showing the rufts on the neck and shoulders or straightening of their legs to make themselves look bigger... Shelley 's right  saying the dogs need  to get more confidence and FOCUS...

zero

 IMO it's from frustration and not weak nerves. Spinning is easier to fix than bumping and re-biting. Many people confuse re-biting and slow outs as power. THATS weak nerve. A strong dog will let go and welcome the battle. Most high drive dogs get frustrated when restricted from the helper with a prong collar. If it was weak nerves it would spin and run!!!

Also, sign  of a dog that is "equipment orientated" vs being towards the person.

I agree with a few pops might correct the problem. Nothing wrong with alittle agitation to focus the dog. As in "flanking" a dog they learn not to turn their back on the bad guy.

Frustration and overloaded with drive!!! work the dog a bit more calming to clean that action up..

Rukidding gave good advice also about the fence

I don't see it being a nerve issue I agree with CmasGSD, if it was a nerve issue he would run or back out

None of us has seen the dog work.  Hense the different theories.  Knowing the history of the dog helps.  How are the dogs grips?  Is it mouthy, calm and full, hectic and thrashing when given the sleeve?  How's the dogs focus during obedience?  Does the dog out?

Bottom line is spinning IS a displacement disorder?  Is it nerves from breeding or caused in training? Why can the dog not focus?  Is it in conflict with the helper?  Is it in conflict because of too many inappropriate corrections from the handler or helper?  Can the dog not focus because its drive will not allow it.

Possible fixes;

a few run by bites to release  the tension,

run blinds a few times to tire out the energizer bunny

like someone suggested, build a chute or funnel to the helper, no room to spin,  put helper deeper into the blind, chair on one side handler on the other

teach the dog place and the command for bark

start from the beginning, back tie the dog, handler on prong collar, put dog in a sit, helper Walks calmly into the dog and gives the bite if the dog does not spin.

Drivey dogs need to be worked calmly, no whip, no running, no swinging sleeve.

You can always give them a tap on the ass to get attention but this can cause more harm in a week nerve dog.

"Spinning is easier to fix than bumping and re-biting. Many people confuse re-biting and slow outs as power."

Bumping is often a dogs way of getting the helper to move so they can get a grip.  Often done out of bordem and too much routine training.  Rebiting and slow outs are more often then not a training issue.  Dogs do what's good for dogs.

"A strong dog will let go and welcome the battle."

A well TRAINED dog will let go and look forward to a new confrontation.

"Most high drive dogs get frustrated when restricted from the helper with a prong collar"

The dog can get frustrated but does it begin to spin or stay in focus?  The prong when used like this can build drive toward the helper and  build social aggression toward the helper as a result of the discomfort from the collar.

If it was weak nerves it would spin and run!!!

There are different levels of weak nerves.  Not all weak nerved dogs crap themselves when confronting the helper.  They have enough nerve to approach the helper, go into conflict and spin as a result, then grip the sleeve but no very well. Weak nerves do not always equal flight.  Here the helper must be careful.  How is the grip?  If its mouthy, another sign for weak nerves.

Good luck working it out,

Kyle