Von, Vom & Van the mystery - Page 1

Since many people especially the newcomers have asked what all this jargon means before naming their kennels, I thought I would set the record straight for once

John Van Dorsten asks:

>Does any one know what the Von means?>

The basic designation of the nobility is the predicate "von", which the vast
majority of German nobles carry. There are a small number of noble houses,
almost exclusively of the Uradel, which have never used the "von" or any other
noble predicate, but are nevertheless of fully equal standing with those that
do.
In northern and eastern Germany there are a substantial number of families
(such as the von Kranichfelds) that use the "von" as designations of the towns
where they come from (as is the case with most older noble families) but have
never been noble and make no pretense to be so.

A few noble houses use "von und zu", meaning they are not only from the place
mentioned but still retain it. One Uradel house is named "aus dem Winckel"
instead of "von dem Winckel" but having the same meaning. Other noble
predicates sometimes seen are "von dem", "von der", or "vom". "Van" is not used
by German nobles but is Dutch or Flemish and does not usually connote nobility
in those countries.

cheers

Thank you, that is the best and clearest explanation I have heard so far.  So, my kennel name vom Clews would mean "from" Clews?  I am not insulting nobility in Germany to use it?  Or am I?

not at all

So good to hear - I don't like insulting people intentionally or not

lol...wish i woulda know that before...so...my dogs name means>>> BOSS from HOGG ? lol...thats funny

No doubt those terms were used in medieval times, but those are just common words.  Someone had asked about this in a previous post, so I contacted one of my buddies in our German office.

********

"von" means in english "from"

"von der" means "from the"
e.g. "Ich nahm etwas von der Mauer" means "I took something from the wall."

"von dem" means "from this"
e.g. "von dem Tag an" means "from this day forward"

"vom" is the short cut of "von dem"

********

"van" is Dutch... ex. Max van Tiekerhook

Well, they are but common words unless they preceed your familie name(s)! Titles were earned long ago, and were bestowed by the ruling royals on those recognized for excellent servitude and substancial achievements. Of course in recent centuries a title could be sold and bought.

A bit of Germanic trivia here-It is of interest to note that while use of the articles of speech depicting titled names is still practiced in Germany (sort of a throwback to the Kaiserliche und Königliche days of the last noble empire) the country of Austria dropped recognition of nobility many decades ago, hence no one of Austrian descent has a legal titled last name.

Regards,

Bob-O

Of course, this is not unique to Germany.

Von in German, as you've all heard.

Van in Dutch, as in Van Ness.

Di in Italian, as in DiNitto.

De in Spanish, as in DeMarco.

Du in French, as in Du Chevalier.

In English, the "from" or "of" was just implied, as in Johnson (Son of John).

As I understand it, these place identifiers are not necessarily royal.  Further, in some languages, royal markers are not place identifiers, as in Polish, in which the "ski" at the end of the name was a tribute indicating honor.

When I was going to name Chaos, I called my breeder and asked her if his name was ok.  His registered name that is, before I even sent in the papers.  I didn't want to put the wrong thing.  She said the name was totally ok, and that she liked it.  I have only named 2 other GSD's and they have my last name in their name.  I wanted to get this one right.  So then came Complete Chaos Von Steppenwolf.  And yes he is complete chaos, LOL.  But we luv him dearly.

So here is the grammer lesson I learend in College German classes. (not really important, but here we go) German is complicated! They have several different owrds for our word "the". Nouns in German all have 'gender' For example, a Pen is masculine (der Kuli), the paper is neuter (das Papier), and the window is feminine (die Wand).  Der, Die and Das all mean 'the'. Which one you use depends on the gender of the noun following the word 'the'.

Then it gets really  complicated. If the noun is plural, the word der/die/das all switch to der. The window (die Wand) becomes der W'ände.

German also uses compound nouns. Die Klasse (the class) becomes das Klassenzimmer (the classroom) because the last part of the compound noun (zimmer=room) is neuter; so die changes to das. If it is 'rooms' (plural) on the end you use der! It gets even worse. When you get into other parts of speech "the" can become den after an accusative case pronoun, or dem when used after a dative case pronoun (von).

Von=of or from

der / die / das / den / dem are all words that mean 'the' depending on the rest of the sentence!

von der is never contracted and is used if the noun following is feminine or plural

vom dem is contrated to vom. Like our 'do not' becomes don't, but the Germans don't use the apostraphe.

Van is Dutch and I don't think it matters what comes after it!

I told you it was complicated, and no one really cares (I'm surprised if you read this far!) For example, my kennel name is Grünenfeld (green field) Feld is neuter and singular, so vom is the correct grammer to use with my kennel name. If it was Grünenfelder (green fields-plural ) I would need to use von der. Yea, I know, I'm anal.... Who said it was English that was tough to learn?!