Different training philosophies: sport dog vs real dog - Page 1

This is what I've experienced, I was wondering what everyone elses club is like...

One private trainer I started using (who btw cosistently competes at a very high level): is completely sport minded, he doesn't give a hoot if the dogs are totally equipment fixed. Its a sport and these a sport dogs.This trainer likes for the dog to come back at him with the sleeve and jump on him wanting to "play tug" with it again.  If a dog skips any blinds and goes right to #6 he will drop the sleeve and walk out of the blind taking the "reward" away.  He doesn't (at least I haven't seen yet) make any kind of effort to take the dogs attention away from the sleeve, there isn't any kind of civil training involved.   

He says my dog is a little overloaded in civil for the sport but that he is an exellent dog (in all fairness he was a police dog...I turned him into a SchH dog). 

The club where I train: The training director is a former Police dog handler so his training philosophy is geared more towards having a real dog. He will start civiling a dog away from the sleeve at a fairly young age (teach the dog that the target is the man not the equiment).  He would never ever drop the sleeve because he wants to keep the dog "real". He will never have the dog bring back the sleeve to the helper for more play.  He would probably prefer they spit it out and engage the helper again over it.

I personally like both enviroronments and think certain dogs are better suited for one over the other depending on the dog. 

I would like to hear how everyone else trains and to hear which way you think is better.

Thanks,

Melanie

Better for what?

I would say we have both, but mostly leaning towards "sport" dog training.  Which for my purposes is fine, this is a sport/hobby for me and I kinda like the fact that my dogs can bring the sleeve back to the helper or to me to "play" more if they choose to do so.  I have one that will and one that won't.  Not saying, that our helpers won't have a dog be more civil either though.

Hundguy....better for you and your dog (your preference).

Rezkat, thanks for you answer.

I own a so called sport dog a dog I train to achieve high goals in the sport  just would not want to be the one messing with him for real off the field <smile > Another dog of mine some years back a well respected large black and red dog named Astor was also trained and competed in the schutzhund sport   again I would not want to be on the other side   :) Both are absolute safe to be around  including small kids  ,one thing is for sure would not worry walking down a dark alley :)  Just because a dog is trained for the sport does not automaticly say the dog is  not going to react in a real situation .

Yes there are dogs active in the sport that would not react but to say most or all  is to far  fetched  to call any dog that does not participate in the sport a REAL dog is a far strech also  many of the so called real dogs would fail a basic temperament test  .  Sharp trigger happy dogs are not  REAL they just display a show to make u think they are :))

I am a strong believer that one can not cut down the middle when it comes to sport and  real situation  reactions of dogs.

just my opinion

Pia

I am personally more for real life  and like PSA, SDA, and ASR training. My dogs are too civil and not equipment happy to be sport dogs.

PIA my guys are like GSDFAN boy they kinda do it all from therapy to sport to protection to narcotics they are well balnced dogs that can go anywhere. But yes there are some that are too sharp or civil.

Pia: Which way do you train?  Does your dogs see any civil during Schutzhund traing?  Will he jump back into the helper with the sleeve in his mouth asking for more play? 

Although the reactions of dogs in a real or sport situation wasn't what I was getting at, I agree with you that just cause they are sport dogs doesn't mean they won't react appropriately to a real situation, but I think that the way you train also has an affect on this.  

My question was asking whether or not you think it's okay (with your dog) to let the "macho" go in training and to be pure sport (like the top trainer) or do you want to leave that edge open for reality (bottom trainer) and not desensitize your dog to the helper by having them jump on them playfully with the sleeve in their mouth.  Rezkat's answer is what I was looking for, she said that this is a sport/hobby for her and she doesn't mind that her one dog playfully interacts with the helper.

Thanks EK, good answer.

Pia Ditto on your post...so many people think because a dog is trained in Schutzhund that they are not a "real dog" . It depends on the dog and not the training...Zidane has not had one day of protection training for personal use and I guarantee you he will bite you if he needs to and like you said I would not want to be on the other end...some people mistake nervy dogs for protection dogs which is a pet peeve for me...a dog that blows up usually is a dog with fear and not a confidant dog....a confidant dog is a hard dog they have nothing to prove and do not become civil when a leaf blows...Marlene

GSDfan,

To answer your question, it is really about what your goals are and what the dog is capable of.

Some dogs are just prey oriented and won't go civil. Nothing wrong with that but that is a pure sport dog. Some dogs are good dogs that may be too sharp to get the highest points on the field. Nothing wrong with that but you have to keep that in mind if you are competing with this dog.

I personally like a balanced dog. Some are naturally balanced, most lean one way or the other and it is up to the trainer to balance them out. Those trainers are harder to find than one would think.

When a dog is stressed, they will revert to their foundation. Be it genetic or training. Trainers are often the same way, they stick to their foundation or what works for them.

There is no right or wrong way. There are far to many variables in dog training. Good trainers do what works for the dog within the dog's genetic capabilities, to attain the goals of the owner.

As for the question of the dog comming back to the helper with the sleeve, it doesn't really matter. It is very easy to teach a dog to out a slipped sleeve and go back on the helper. In training, I want the dog to be willing to come back to the helper with the sleeve.