Growling & Snapping - Page 1

I'm sure this post will sound silly but I was caught a little off guard by my 5 year old female's behavior yesterday.

We had some friends who have an 8 year old girl.  She has been around this little girl before (not often but a few times).  I was sitting on the floor next to my female when the little girl approached very hesitantly with her hand raised to pet my female.  I had told the little girl to not pet  her on her head but on her chest.  My female growled and did a short snap - not at the hand but off to the side.  Obviously, it was enough to scare the little girl to not come any closer. 

I corrected my female and separated her from us for the remainder of the visit.  Anything else I should have done differently?  She isn't around children a lot (we don't have any children).  Now, I'm very hesitant to have her out when smaller children are over at the house.   She's fine with older children who don't act afraid of her.  It's almost like she senses their insecurity or fear and she's been given an inch so she tries to take a mile.


This is also the same dog that is so loyal, devoted and affectionate to my husband and I.  I guess we are the only recipients of her affection because she could care less about anyone else.  We don't have a lot of friends who have small children so hopefully this won't be an issue again.  Strange thing is though if we go to PetsMart (very infrequently) she is tolerable and thankfully has never growled or snapped when children have petted her. I guess I was just a little surprised is all.

Craazee4gsds,
Since no one is replying yet I will give you my thoughts. Since I was not there and do not know your dog they are just that, thoughts.
To start it sounds like your dog was on a down. The dog sounds like it has not had lots of interaction with children and is not overly comfortable with them. If this is so then dogs can feel vulnerable by children and especially in a vulnerable position with a child coming at them and above them. It is more of a reaction to uncertainty I believe then anything. Not being comfortable and uncertain of the child's intentions. This is not uncommon if the above scenerio is accurate.
You have to do what you have to do to assure the child's safety and your own fears. Having said that personally I probably would have gotten the dog up off of the down and let the child go her way, sitting down somewhere and let your dog go her way. Let her be comfortable in her own home and let the child know of the potential harm from approaching a dog that is laying down etc. After a period of time I would have tried to orchestrate the dog coming to the child with the child sitting down. She could then give the dog a treat and encourage a friendship based on the dogs innitive. If at all possible I would always want to have a positive outcome to this relationship before the evening was over. This is only based on what you have provided and is only my opinion. Hope you get some more feedback.

Great reply schooled. If she puts the dog away everytime when children are around the dog will perceive that it being punished in this situation and you will get real agression. Seen it work this way before to the point where the dog was given away. Best outcome for the dog as the other option being considered was to put the dog down. Happy ending was OB and 2 year old dog is now a happy ten year old.

P.S. One important thing I forgot to mention is that you know your dog and read your dog in situations like this. It is your responsibility to be able to read your dog around children. Look at her eyes and see if you see fear or you see the dog watching out of the corner of her eyes as not being trustful and relaxed, If fear is present around children then you have more to deal with. I do not ever take it for granted that in all situations a dog is going to be proper with a child. Take her out and expose her to children if possible in an enviorment that you have control over so you know what to expect. I always take the time to educate people that I run into with my dogs if they have children. So often the parents haven't a clue and allow their children to run up and pet the dogs, so it always falls back on us.

olskool brings up I think; the most important issue.....

If you know how to read a dog, they will tell you before they go to bite someone. If someone can't see this, the dog is not safe to have around small children. Period.

Dog bites are handler screw ups and/or preventable. All of them. I have challenged many people to give me a scenario when a dog bite could not have been prevented. Nobody has of yet. Every single bite goes back to the handler. They can all be prevented.

There is a big difference between being a dog owner and a dog handler. Safe dog handling is probably one of my biggest pet peeves. Especially if the dog is trained in bitework.

My very first mentor always told me, "Don't ever put your dog in a position to fail. If never put them in a postion to fail, they never will." Now that yo know your dog will snap at a child, if you put her in that postion again, you are giving her the opportunity to fail.

If I ever owned a dog that snapped or attempted to bite a child, that dog would never be around small children without a leash and me on the other end. But that's just me.

If you can't read your dog, you can't prevent a bite.

I would think part of the snap was due to you were sitting there next to your dog, (petting the dog, the dog),  getting affection from you and telling the little girl get lost this is my time. I agree with the above, if she is never around small ones she will never be comfortable, you need to set her up to win.

Gard is correct...all the way....do not put a dog in a situation ,,,if it is not able to be good....to meet a new child , the child should be sitting and the dog approach the child..first.....on a leash ,,,,,no fear on your part   act natural   let child open handed offer a treat to dog....and no petting , just let dog sniff her and she can say   nice doggie or pretty puppy  something cute that she will like to say....you dont wanat the child to be afraid either, but coach her not to pet on head,,,,under chin.,,,,this child may actuall y be too small for your big girl..

Ive always explained to people,,,,most gsds dont like young kids and older men or women that they never saw before , especially if they reach for the gsd without proper introduction and if your are heeling  you gsd beside you on leash , and they do that,,,the dog is in a protection mode immediately,,,,she may not bite them , but will growl and snarl....and once had a female;s tooth , snag a mans arm as he pulled back....He was a free bleeder , so the ER reported it to sheriff, and you know the rest of the story....the man told them...it was my fault ,,i reached for the dog and it didnt know me ,,,she snarled only and my hand hit her tooth as I pulled away......they still quaranteened her , to the tune of $385.00 for 12 days......

Thank you everyone for the great feedback.  I really do appreciate it.  Yes, in hindsight she was a little uncomfortable having the little girl around so that was why I was sitting by her on the floor.  That probably only exacerbated things to some degree.

I had thought about letting the little girl give her treats.  However, after the growl and snap she wouldn't go near my female and the parents were a little leery of her as well.  My female has also been known to be a little alligator when taking treats in the past so that's another reason why I didn't pursue the treat option.  I've worked with her to a great degree to take her treats nicely and we have about 99% accuracy now with no teeth making contact with skin - even with high valued treats.

Before the little girl left, I was playing with the dogs in the yard and she wanted to throw the tennis ball for them.  She threw it a few times and my female brought it back to her each time so at least that was on a more positive note.

Glad to hear that the visit ended on a positive note.  Once the fear is established in the child it can be almost impossible to overcome and the dog will almost certainly pick up on it, making her even more nervous.

I always hate hearing statements like, "this is also the same dog that is so loyal, devoted and affectionate to my husband and I."

Well no S#!t!!!!!  It is a GSD and it is your dog.  Why wouldn't it be loyal , devoted and affectionate with it's owners?  Even Charles Manson had a mother that he was loyal, devoted and affectionate with.  Don't think that your dog is going to treat everyone with the same attitude you are treated with.  That is one of the biggest mistakes and ignorant statements one can make.