Question on E- Collars - Page 1

On some E-Collars you have the option of using the actual shock or just a tone. I know the tone is a frequency that humans can't hear.

My question is what actually is the tone? Is it annoying or bothersome to the dog or just a noise he hears that we don't?

The reason I ask is my GSD is extremely well behaved but has developed one annoying quirk that is driving the family nuts. So I bought an E-Collar and just used the tone once or twice and you can't believe how well the problem stopped. I haven't used the shock at all and just the site of me picking up the remote causes him to act perfectly. So I'm wondering if the tone bothers him.

One other thing that may pertain here, he was 2 yrs old when we got him from Germany and was already obedience, tracking and protection trained, so I'm thinking maybe he was exposed to one in Germany and once he hears the tone he knows what could be next.

Can any of our German friends comment on whether E-Collars are used a lot in normal training in Germany?  

Thanks in advance!!!

We can hear the tone on ours.  We use it for a reminder they are wearing a collar.  It could probably be used similar to operant conditioning (clicker type) training as a reward tone also for those training that way, you could give the positive (tone) sound from a distance that using the collar.

We have great results with the collar also.  You hear the tone on ours and we do the same and just put it on them and sound the tone one time.  We got it at the suggestion of a local police officer when we were having trouble with our neighbor and needed to teach the dogs not to bark at him when they were outside.  Because of the aggressive nature of the neighbor and the threat he appeared to be in the dogs minds, they would get agitated when he was near the fence.  It was a potentially bad situation brewing and we were desparate as the guy usually instigated the ruckus.

In just one day the dogs stopped paying the extra attention to that area of the fence.  When they have the collar on they know to be on good behavior and as each day goes by it seems they wear them less and less.  The key is not to over use them and one very important piece of advice is if yours has a 1-10 dial for shock control keep it in the lowest setting '1' so you don't accidentally hit the button (funny but not ).

The problem is you want the dog to listen to your voice/command not a tone on the E-collar.. It is always Command - Correction. Not Command or else I will tone you "Warning" before I correct you.... Basic Dog Training 101...... 

Sometimes it is best to get with a local trainer that you trust and have them work the collar for you so you can learn about when and how to use the collar.. 

GSDLVR2 gave very good advise.

Hundguy - you are right - we only used the correction if they did not come to the verbal command.  This was only happening when they were barking aggressively with hackles up at the neighbor and were "in the zone" with the issue.  We had to use the shock on only a few occasions, they would instantly come and we would praise them for coming then bring them inside for awhile.  Now when I say come they always do.   Are you saying not to use the tone  at all?  I had used it as correction with my two as it did not seem they needed the shock but only the warning of it.

They are family dogs with obedience training but not hard core sch training and there are times when they are out in the yard and I just need to get my girls attention off of something.  She will come find me when I tone her which I find to be a good thing many times as I have a limiting back injury.

Advice on doing it differently?

gsdlvr2, it is a petsafe remote trainer.

The dog used to lay down anytime he rode in the car. For the last month or so anytime a family member got out of the car to go inside a store he would go nuts barking and jumping all around (even though other family members were still in the car with him). Last week he broke a window in my SUV. I have a crate sometimes I use it sometimes I don't. It is impractible for me to use it all the time. Anyway after just using the e-collar several times (tone only) he has totaly retured to a well-behaved dog.

In the last month I would give him a command (in the car) and he totaly ignored it. I gave him the tone and then the command again and he immediately behaved. Now he is behaving perfectly to all commands while riding. Problem solved.

The directions clearly state that some dogs behave as well to the tone as others do to the shock.

I've easily solved my problem I was just curious if others thought he had prior e-collar training, also if the tone bothered him. Apparantly it just brings back memories.

I think I have answered all the questions from everyone who replied. Thanks

Hundguy,
Correct me if I am wrong, but are you saying the tone should never be used ?  
When the dog is in need of a long distance or imediate correction the E-coller is used. If the tone accompanies the shock then you have Pavovs dog's. It the tone is consistant with the shock it will not take long for the dog to associate the tone with the shock. Now depending on the dog of course, temperment, high drive, pain threshold, and too many variables to mention here, assuming that the shock is without a doubt getting the dogs attention, then the tone will also get his attention. The dog will not percieve that a correction is coming but will percieve the correction is in the tone or at least innitially will percieve the two are one. Granted, the dog will eventially figure this out if it happens too often or the dog is in high drive, in which case the shock will need to be brought back.
When I purchased my last E-coller I had searched around for a coller that had a reward system ( tone ) with it. No one seemed to know of this including Ray Allen and Leerburg. It is basically the same principle in reverse. The moment the shock stops the new tone starts, thus the dog is given this new tone when the pain stops. The new tone then becomes a wonderful thing to his ears and can now be used by itself for rewarding at a distant. I was positive these were around at one time. Just curious what your thoughts were.  Thanks

Agree olskool,

I believe Ivan Balabanov teaches a "marker" for both positive and negative re-enforcement. The marker marks the behavior or command, then the dog is given reward, reward withheld, or correction.

I believe a marker (be it tone, voice, clicker, whatever) establishes the Pavlovian conditioning but gives the dog the opporunity to think about what they are doing while giving them a choice to obey the command or change behavior. I have been using voice markers on my new dog for the first time, it seems to be working so far.

Of course in dog training nothing is a given and no dog is the same. Hihg drive, pain tolerance, individual dogs temperament, etc. If it were as simple as bad behavior= correction, good behavior= reward, everyone would be a dog trainer.

Clewsk9s;

Well, lets see.

• The tone used as a warning after a command is actually a second command.. Right, so do you want the dog to listen to your command "Verbal" or are you wanting to dog to listen to the second command the tone?

• The tone if used as a praise/reward instead of a verbal reward is flawed as well. If you are trialing you can not use some form of a tone/clicker to reward your dog between exercises.. "But" You can tell the dog "good boy" between exercises.

• The tone used for pet obedience really is not reasonable IMO.. The pet owners do not want to have to cary a clicker or E-collar for the rest of their lives. Teach them to listen to the commands, not a tone or clicker after the command. Again what is the dog really responding too the command or the clicker/tone?

• The tone if used for long distance. Lets say your working bird dogs and you are teaching directionals a tone or whistle for this type of training is "great". I think this is the original use for tone on E-Collars. The less you have to cary while in the field the better...

We all know that everyone has opinions! My belief is the tone/clicker is actually in the way of the dog & handler working together. When I say Sit I do not want to have to say Sit then click to make the dog sit.. If I say come the dog needs to turn his ass around and be heading my way AFAP!!! Period....