Bloat question. - Page 1

In your opinions is bloat  hereditary?

Dave

I do not see how, the trait to gobble down water when hot, or eat big amounts of dry food, not wet, and be hot or have had no water during day and they eat and gobble water to an excess...could be considered a hereditary disease.....now the trait to have high food drive and eat fast and gobble food is hereditary....all our high prey lines have both drive toy, and fight and food.....It is the responsibility of the owner of a gsd or large breed animal, to keep the food in small amounts, wet the food with water, or liquid or put raw meats in the food and feed when dog is cool  ,,not hot, and having rested from play or work......almost all bloat cases are a result of  either,,,,too hot,,,,to exhausted after work or play eating while hot and blood pressure up from activity.....dog has not had water in many hours ,,,,drinks too much too fast,,, and then eats a large amount of dry kibble, or eats a large amount of dry kibble gobbling down , and drinks a large amount of water, or drinks no water at all until later and gorges itself too fast and drinks a very large amount of water......causing the food to swell quickly and beyond the limits in which the intestine can handle and it tortions....

I have had three do it and yes they are all related,,,,,,,,,but one drank a whole bucket of water at midnight after I had worked him and a police dog together in a contest at the degree in summer of 99 * that summer in Texas    I fell asleep in the chair and he drank the whole bucket and whalaaaah     in four hours hes was dead ....it tore the spleen from the wall.....a male did the opposite  he had no water because he was on a trip,  let out of truck   , ate his dinner,,,gobbled it down and them drank a large amount of water, while everyone was getting their motel rooms and didnt notice what he did.....he died after he got to ER....bloat... not enough water all day then the gobble and no water in stomach , then tto large an amount...    another one bloated after she had been worked and the person let her drink , and drink drink  and had eaten less than an hour before she worked her...which is another mistake.....

Here's a link to an article on bloat:

http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proceedings.plx?CID=TUFTSBG2003&PID=5091&O=Generic

The article states that "First degree relatives of dogs that have had bloat have a 63 percent greater risk of developing bloat themselves."

Ang

There is no single, major gene that controls bloat. This is because dogs do not inherit bloat; they only inherit a predisposition for the condition. As with other polygenic disorders, breadth of pedigree norma

Thanks to both of you for your response.......

I guess I will add my 2 bits. I don't think "they" know for sure what causes bloat. There is a study being done (search the message board for bloat) looking to identify a genetic marker. If one is found then I guess then there would be proof bloat is inherited.

 I personally think it has to do with commercial dog food. I once read an article stating an incredible increase of bloat ( the percentage was off the charts) when companies began extruding food. I have no idea where the article might be found. I also do believe in the Great Dane Ladies ideas on bloat in dogs, which again you could google. I wonder is there any incidence of bloat in wild candids?

I am also a horse person and colic is somewhat similar to bloat. Alot of the preventatives are the same, such as no cold water for a hot horse. In feeding when switching from winter hay to green grass , go slow. Molds in hay, don't feed, to much grain etc. It seems that cows are similar as well. I never ever read there was an inhertible gene when it came to these animals, but then I don't know everything thats for sure. But I do know I heard about colic years before I heard about canine bloat.

I think maybe dog food has in some ways gone downhill in the quality of ingredients, even the premium brands, compared to the old days. Everything else has gone downhill.....

In my own personal experience with another large breed, yes, I think there is a genetic component involved. I know of one family of dogs that bloats so frequently that it is common practice for every dog to be tacked when it reaches maturity. I myself owned a dog that died from torsion as did 2 of his littermates. His father survived bloat and was tacked and used for breeding although he still bloated. The tacking saved him for torsion, but he was later put down after after bloating multiple times.  My dog died in 1979. Too many cases of bloat and torsion in related dogs to be assumed coincidental.

Frankly, I think if GSD breeders who lost dogs to bloat or had dogs that survived it would be more forthcoming, it would soon be clear that many of these dogs are related.

While I can't speak from my experience with German bloodlines, I do know without a shadow of doubt that there are genetic components for various GI problems (bloat, GDV, "toxic gut" syndrome, EPI) of the GSD from American lines.

It always pains me when I see in the pedigrees of many current, top-winning , AKC specialty lines so many ancestors who have suffered early deaths due to GI problems. I know who many of these dogs are through my past employment as a vet tech at several veterinary emergency clinics and at a veterinary medical teaching college--where many of these dogs presented as patients.

Even worse--people have linebred and inbred on many of these dogs?  Some of the worst culprits are breeders who have become AKC judges!  

Well out of curiosity, do you, Louise and Blitzen, think it is a genetic compotent on the way the dogs were built or some internal malfunction? Also if it were bred in, could it be bred out?

I honestly don't know, Trailrider.  My guess is it could well be a combination of both -  the way the dog is structured plus an inability to assimilate its food.  Maybe the  structure of the abdominal sling that holds the stomach stable preventing it from torsing is malformed in some way; too weak, too tight, too loose. Maybe these dogs lack a specific enzyme or have too much or too little bacterial flora in their gut; or that flora is of the wrong type or there is too little or too much of it.  Maybe something in the genetic makeup of dogs that bloat allows too much gas to form and that gas cannot be expelled. I just don't know and can think of numerus scenarios that could be considered.  Until more research is done and there are indepth pedigree studies on dogs with this tendency, I'm not sure if anyone could say whether or not it could be bred out of a line that appears to be prone or if all lines are now affected.

IMO, there is no real proof yet that exercise before or after eating, water comsumption or the content of food eaten is a factor, but the jury is still out on that too. Most I know err on the side of caution regarding when they exercise their dogs in relationship to when they eat, feed several small meals per day rather than one large one and wet down the food if they are feeding kibble.  Some avoid food containing soy and other grains. I myself am very anal about all of those things even though I'm not convinced it's going to prevent Blitz from ever bloating in his lifetime, it just makes me feel as if I'm doing what I can to be a good dog owner.

As far as I know the only common factor most researchers agree upon is that the older the dog the more likely it is to bloat. When a young dog bloats then a genetic component is more likely to be the cause I think. In an older dog, the cause could be from physical changes as the result of the normal aging process