Backyard schutzhund - Page 1

Here is a link toa video I shot yesterday of me doing some work with my 2 year old male. He has had basic obedience done the traditional way i.e. with complusion and it was reflected in his attitude while he worked. I have been reading Ivan Balabanov's book and watched both his videos and decided to implement his technique on Juno. What you see is 2 months of work @ 1 session/day during the week and about 5/6 sessions/day during the weekend in our backyard. It took a couple of sessions of utter confusion on his part and complete frutration on my part but it started clicking together and it was a wonderful feeling to finally communicate with my dog. Granted he is not ready for the Nationals or even local club level, as I am doing it more for fun. His protection work is great and he will bite with/without a sleeve (I know because I had to react fast to protect the decoy), different decoys, and different locations. My goal is to proof his obedience first and then go further in protection work with him in personal protection by taking elements of KNPV and schutzhund. Like I mentioned before, not titling him, just like working with him to see how far we can go. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3830907034225052522&hl=en 

Just a piece of advice.  Put some shoes on and get a bit more animated.  You need to pump that dog up.  Yes, I van can look like an emotionless robot at times, but that is not how he moves when he needs topick up the dogs.  You have to remember most of the time, Ivan is working with a super high drive Malinois, not a lower driven Shepherd.  He doesn't need to be as animated as some.  Sometimes with a Malinois, you need to keep that drive under wraps. 

You have just started with your dog.  I wouldn't focus so much on the exercises and pattern as much as building the drive and getting the dog to respond quicker.  Go back and watch Ivan's first video again.  The worst thing to do is skip a few steps. You are working the dog Everyday and 5-6 times on Sat. and Sun.  You need to make this more of a game.  If you continue to work that dog everyday like this, it is going to look flat.

When you put your dog in the down out of motion, was that a nice quick straight down?  Ivan tries to explain that dogs see in black and white.  Not neccessarily the colors, but right and wrong. The key is to reward at the right moment for correct behavior and to teach the dog what is wrong.  If you reward or even overlook a mistake, the dog will consider this appropriate and continue to do this incorrectly.  You are conditioning the dog to make mistakes.

Thanks for the feedback. I agree with most everything you say, except for the shoes thing. Since it is my own backyard...lol. Like I said, doing it more for fun. With Juno, if I get too animated then he gets way too excited. So I try to do it after I had a session with fetch with him already so he is a little calmer, and if it is really hot like it was yesterday (we live in Florida) makes it a little easier for me. As for the down, it was nice and quick, but not straight, he was a little crooked. Have to keep working with him. Each session is usually about 5 minutes, the rest is all play. When I shot this video I wanted him to be as calm as possible so he would not go crazy on me.

Good Job!

The "Don" is right. First the dog needs to learn to play. And when you start drive building it can get very physical at least with my dogs. I learned my lesson and always where good shoes. 

In the drive buidling phase I don't think a dog can get too excited. Remember you can always take drive out but it is very very hard (if not impossible) to put it back in. Most people who train want to condition the dog to come into drive at training so you can work through your corrections with fun drivey rewards.

Are you training with a club? Ivan is great. I have been looking for my copy of his book to re read parts of again.....  I also like the Flinks tapes. Good stuff.

Good Luck

I can acknowledge the previuos posts .. might agree if you wish to compete with schutzhund .. but as you mstated you have planned different elements from different sports.. your obedience is just fine .. in ring sport you do not see the dog prancing around in heel ..looks nice but let's face it that is a choreograph display and not real to life . in ring sports .. a heel is a heel ..need not be fancy schmancy.. you go .. the dog goes in position .. you stop the dog stops and sites in position .. simple .. this in oiur ring sport is done anytime any place . whenever.. not just on a training firld ... but also downtown .. at the mall etc.. what i saw on your video -- real and more true to life .. also .. ok i understand you training method .. but again unless you want to compete Sch .. that's drive baloney .. i look to see your relationship with your dog ... does it perform .. it seemed so .. and better yet .. i watched the eyes .. looked to you almost on your every footstep .. that OMO is what is importeant " the Relationship with your dog and as that relationship is prjected within the realm of the dog perfroming " .. IMO we do not need robot dogs and those that are so patterned trained . when i move i want to see my dog in tune with me and thinkingd a routine that is always the same .. not a step for step turn for turn  routine .. So IMO don't go to hard on yourself.. you did much more and better than 80% of the people that own GSDs 

If you live in Florida make the trip and go see Ivan personaly. When people watch and read books on dog training their view of what is really going on is often not very accurate. (due to past experiences, preconcived notions, ect.)  I congradulate you for being open to new training.

Thanks to all your feedback. Not planning on schutzhund, although like the protection routine of KNPV and Ring, and do want the control to be there anywhere and anytime. I am not there yet, far from it. Want to get the basics done in my backyard and then take it out in the street. As you can see I use the toy (a ball in this case) to get his attention. Any advice as to how to use a similar technique out in the street, where the distractions are much higher, and I can't play with the ball with him?

Alphapup

you crack me up.  Re-read his post.  He said he is working with him in protection by taking elements of knpv and Sch.  He never said he wanted to do Ring obedience.

"Choreographed display"  It is all choreographed if you pull your head out of your Ace.  It is called conditioning.  Your dog doesn't stop and sit when you stop because he was born with that instinct.  You "choreographed" that!  Just because Sch takes it a step furthur than ring and actually wants focus on their dog, doesn't mean that it is choreographed more than a ring dog.  If you like to watch a flat dog, that is your opinion.  I, on the other hand, like to see a dog in tune with his handler with intensityand extreme focus.  I think Juno does too, or he wouldn't be watching Ivan's videos.  

I love it when you talk about the dogs emotions and what he is feeling.  Go read Werner's article again and post some more of this stuff.  I friggen luv it! 

I am a little concerned with the end of one of your videos where it's showing  the dog jumping up on the child on a sofa and then when the kid is trying to push the dog down, the dog is "mouthing" the child.  I don't think any dog, even in play should be allowed to have their teeth on a child.  Just my personal opinion.

You must have watched one of the old videos, he was a little over a year old then and still very mouthy. Actually he is very good with kids and the neighbourhood mascot, where kids (teenagers with skateboards to toddlers) come up to him and pet him and know him by name. There have been cases when we have gone out for a walk and kids run up to him and ask if they can pet him and he just stood their calmly, in one instance one kid ran right up to him and I had to pick him up but my dog was calm about the whole thing. Yes, he is not a gentle dog, he will jump and play. Also, he is not a calm dog at all, and is constantly doing something unless he is sleeping (which in our opinion is not enough). When he is awake he is always looking at ways to gain our attention so we can start playing again. He has an on/off switch during protection work and can go from bite work to being approached by a complete stranger where he is not aggressive but just attentive and curious, on the other hand he has gone out walking with my wife and in two occassions stepped in front of a stranger and looked at them till they backed off to a safer distance. His temperament is such that he has enough civil drive in him that he will never be a good sport dog, i.e. he is not sleeve happy so when the decoy throws the sleeve away he won't even pay any attention to it but stay on the man. Like I said, I don't believe I will ever win any sports competitions with him, however; will he protect me and my family if the need arises, most likely, hope we never find out. The reason I say that he will ptotect is because I have taken him to a totally different environment with a different decoy in a couple of occassions and he had no issues in biting, this when he was 16 and 18 months old respectively.