training question--what what you have done? - Page 1

I have told the story several times now of my experience with agression training. When the trainer pretended to attack me, my dog barked and stood his ground but did not go after the trainer.

I was speaking to the same trainer yesterday and he related the story of how he tried the same agression method with another dog recently. The dog did bite, but not the trainer. The dog was so freaked out he actually bit the owner/handler in an attempt to get away. The owner did not correct the dog for biting him, while the trainer thinks the owner should have corrected the dog.  I do not know the history of the dog but I was told the dog is not trained. Would it have been fair to correct a dog for biting the owner when the owner is the one who put the dog in the situation in the first place? (Should the owner have known the dog a little better?) Or do you always correct a dog for biting the owner no matter what? I'm curious as to what others think.

absolutely not.  the dog was clearly confused.  people who don't know what they are doing should never atempt this sort of thing.  the dog

should never be corrected or punished because of human stupidity.  i don't know how much of this crap is really going on, but according

to youtube and some others, it would appear to be pretty common.  i get sick at the thought of ruined dogs on account of this type of

"so called protection training."  

pjp

dog is scared....trying to escape...owner's in the way...  Put yourself in the dog's place.

I would have bit him too to get the he!! outta there if they scared me that bad.

Why correct a dog for something he doesn't understand and add to the confusion?

No learning can happen that way whether you're doing protection or obedience or anything else.

just curious, but...wouldn't him "not understanding" be the reason for correcting him/teaching him not tto bite the owner?  or do yall mean that they tried to do this to soon with the dog, that they should have introduced the situation slower therefore it was not something they should correct the dog on? I just thought that no matter what, if a dog does something not wanted, that you are suppose to correct him no matter the situation, i don't mean harsh correction, but let them know they are not suppose to do that...just wondering..

~julie~

to me, this is the equivilent of spanking a two year old for not knowing the alphabet.  not only does he not know why he is being punished; he doesn't have a clue what he is supposed to know.  i guess i just have to borrow a phrase from herr flinks for this one:  "shit training."  that's what he would call it and that's what it is.

pjp

I don't want to offend anyone, but IMO a dog that afraid, is not a candidate for that type of training.  I certainly dont believe in correcting the poor thing because he was terrified. There are just so many dogs out there that would make much better candidates to be trained.

Not trying to be mean.....but I think the dog bit the right person! JMHO jo

I put this 100% on the "trainer".

If the dog did what they did out of fear, the trainer should have seen it way before he ever even attempted this scenario. Sounds to me like one of the many dipshit "personal protection" trainers that train dogs for "real" out in the world. Based only on what you described I would stay the hell away from this guy.

No you do not discipline a dog for being confused and biting the handler. There are a number on scenerios where you do not correct a dog for biting the handler. Puting unfair preasure or too harsh correction on a dog in my opinions warrents a dog to defend himself. I have made these mistakes in a moment of haste and I had it coming. 
I knew of a dog that I had talked with the owner about some years ago. I had made it clear that I would like the dog if she ever decided to get rid of the dog. He was a real nice working dog from Germany. I noticed the dog was not around for awhile then saw this scrawny young dog in her yard so I stopped and asked her where her dog was. She explained to me that the UPS had delivered a package to her and were passing the package over the fence. The dog was in full drive and was not going to allow the UPS man to approach. He finally reached out with the package and the lady reached out for it and she was bit by the dog. This dog was hot and in the indecision and moving back and forth with the package the dog bit the first thing it could get. Unfortunatly it was the lady. She and her family agreed that they would not have a dog that would bite them. The dog was destroyed. In listening to her and watching her describe what had happened it was obviously confusion, frustration and a reflex bite. I did not say a word. It was pointless at this point. I have shared this story over the years to point out that dogs will bite their owner under some situations. Every one I have explained this to has disagreed and said the dog should have been destroyed. Well, I would have taken that dog in a heart beat. I will continue to say that a dog must be given slack in the area of confusion and over correcting.

The beginning stages of bitework are about confidence building, not scaring a dog then punishing it for being scared. And I've handled a few dogs that were initially uncomfortable or confused by someone approaching them in an aggressive fashion but turned into outstanding, serious protection dogs. I would have to disagree with that trainer on this one also.