Just curious ... - Page 1

This line is from an online ad for GSD puppies that a friend sent me -

"Father oversized pure black German working lines, CRN, CRA, RN, RA, CGN, HIC".

I'm not interested in buying a puppy, just curious what the title/test abbreviations mean.

Easy: CGN (CKC Canine Good Neighbour) and HIC (Herding Instinct Certificate)

Does anyone know what CRN, CRA, RN, and RA are?

I'm not lazy- here's where I looked:

http://www.vonlotta.com/definitions.html
http://hem.passagen.se/flickan1982/hundf_forkort.html
http://www.angesgardiens.ca/ANG/Glossary.htm
http://www.justfurkids.com/dog_titles.html
http://www.worldclassgsd.com/Tips_Resources_For_German_Shepherds/Certifications_and_titles.htm
http://www.nwk9.com/working_titles.htm#title
http://hauspharao.com/titlerans.html
http://www.offa.org/hd_grades.html or http://www.ovc.uoguelph.ca/hip-elbow/process/

Feel free to mock me if the abbreviations are obvious. :)

Laura

A couple look like AKA titles.

http://www.akc.org/events/titles.cfm?page=2

RN = Rally Novice

RA = Rally Advanced

The CRN / CRA might be Canadian Rally Novice, Canadian Rally Advanced?  But those are just a guess.

http://www.canadogs.com/Dog_Titles.htm

It never ceases to amaze me how many letters somebody can put after a dog's name to make it look suitable for breeding, without a single one that qualifies it as breedworthy under the SV standard.
Kinda like dancing around the pool, but never actually getting in the water.
My first reaction is always to wonder why someone didn't use all that time just go out and get a title or two that mean something to more than the casual browser.

RN, registered nurse
RA- registered nurse's assistant.   

That is one smart dog

Just kidding, they are not obvious to me, sorry I'm of no help.

RLHAR - That makes sense. Thank-you.

Shelley,
I think the one of the reasons is.....the owners/breeders have no desire for the Sport of Schutzhund or any venue similar. They consider since there is no pre-requisite here in the USA regarding breeding, why should they?  *It is a lot of work & dedication to do so.*
They consider value in the AKC titles and " test-suffixes" to determine & promote working ability.....
I'm seeing this more and more.....and I think there has been less and less credibility and desire in titles.

Perhaps I'm wrong...but it is just my perception.

More and more people call me asking if I will sell dogs to non-SchH homes. So many have been turned down by other breeders when they answered honestly and said they probably wouldn't do SchH. They say they simply have zero interest in the sport, or have retired from it,  and don't want to deal with the politics and are seeking other venues in which to have fun with their dogs in a bonding/training aspect. 

I think Robin is totally right about the reason. Those are all titles or certificates available via training and testing in other venues and while of course they are not SV recognized, the SV doesn't preside over breeding matters in this country and they are in many cases AKC titles, and since AKC is the registry of this country, many many people are turning to its sponsored titles, or at least that's how it seems lately. 

[quote] It never ceases to amaze me how many letters somebody can put after a dog's name to make it look suitable for breeding, without a single one that qualifies it as breedworthy under the SV standard.
Kinda like dancing around the pool, but never actually getting in the water [/quote]

You don't know why some folks choose AKC titles instead of SV titles?

I live in a MAJOR metropolitan area and there are no more than 4 schutzhund clubs with a 2 hours drive of my home.  Second, one of them does not accept new members and only two have vague websites.  Yes,  people need to make a phone call to the club, but how many newbie threads have we seen where the newbie made a phone call and the first thing discussed by the club is what poor quality their dogs pedigree is.

Compare this with AKC clubs in my area, where there are over a dozen clubs, ALL have websites, ALL accept new members and ALL have classes for newbies to train for titles without the need to join the club.  Also most likley  NONE will mock a person or thier dog or its pedigree before they even show up to the club for the first time.

Also to top it all off, SV has DONE NOTHING to explain in laymens term how one goes about earning the various titles, nor are their scoring events offered as often as those from the AKC.  Quite frankly even official websites for the sport and the explanation I have seen of such, STINK.  You have to give it to the AKC, they have laid out the rules of earning titles and process as clear as day for newbies.  I am not talking about the difficulty of the events in question, just frequency and overall access to participate. 

Last, you should know not all breeds are judged by SV titles.  I am not saying the dogs being sold are good or bad, but a well bred sporting retriever or sheep dog doesn't exactly need an SV title to prove such.  A run of the mill AKC title will suffice.  I agree an SV title is definately preferred for GSD, but the only reason I have some familiarity with it is because of exposure to it in the 1980's when my entire family all had German Shepherds and the only title in town you could get was SV based.  This hasn't hasn't been the norm for decades and the results of such are now very apparent.  Face it, the SV crowd cut the umbilical cord to newbies decades ago.  Now almost all new blood goes to the AKC for titles.  The only people doing SV in the USA are "advanced enthusiasts" and people in the dog business.  In my opinion we are only going to see more of this, not less, as the next decade goes by.

Not to mention the crippling cost to participate in SV sponsered events; layers upon layers of expense & regulation that is numbingly difficult to understand to a newbie. And in a sagging economy, who is planning on laying out a couple thousand dollars after the purchase of the animal, just to prove what they already 'know' they've got? (Says so in the pedigree, & in their breeder's ads! ) Just sayin'!

Plus there are a lot of us out there that underestimated the cost in time, as well. As my age advances, I find myself ever more burdened by work obligations, & family obligations; & I only see that increasing, not decreasing anytime in the near future. My dogs are my refuge from life, & a well-spring that I use to keep life in perspective; & they live a good life, but who knows what they could have been if my time had been my own? jackie harris

RN = Rally Obedience Novice     - CRN = champion in Rally Novice
RA =  Rally obedience Advance  - CRA = Champion in Advance Rally
HIC = Herding Intermediate - sheep

I enjoy working my dogs in schutzhund, but it was very difficult to find a welcoming club when I was a novice. I don't find many educating programs offered to the public to get more people interested into the sport.
Find very few younger people that join schutzhund stay with the sport after going through difficulties of clubs, training, politics, $, travel, etc..
I must travel almost 2 hours one way just to attend a club training 2x a week, the gas money + club do's + equipment + auto up keep, + my personal time really start to add up.
It really would be so much easier to go get AKC titles with my club 5 minutes away that hold weekly 1 hour classes too. I often take my puppies to these clubs for socialization & get training while they mature.
Always enjoy them & getting more tempted to stay with them to earn titles through their venuses than transfer over to schutzhund.

AKC does an excellent job promoting their events, offering classes & events for training for titles. People are so much more welcoming to novice in joining AKC events / clubs. Plus most can find a class / club within 30 minutes from their home. I'm not sure why so many people look down on these AKC trails. I see more people that do AKC; obedience, agility, herding, & tracking titles on their dog plus work them in protection for GSD's, Mal's, Dob's & Rotties.    
You can also get a AKC CGC certificate & American Temperament Test certificate, both are test of temperament.

It's too bad schutzhund is not promoted in the same way as AKC events. What's going to happen to the sport in this country if the next generation does not know about it or have been turn off by the sport?
Very sad if it disappears in the states except for a handful of people. It's nice to see people working & training their dogs no mater where they do it.