Baltimore K9 Video...Cruelty or Acceptable? - Page 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2H_iGRgGr0E&mode=related&search=

This video has made its way around all the message boards. It is unfortunate that some one made the video because people whom don't understand will get the wrong idea.

IMHO-The dog is being corrected for going after the handler during training. He may be a little unclear in the head or having handler aggression. Either way the handler has to establish rank and it is ugly. There may be better ways of doing it but unfortunately this is what was video taped.

Peace !

No way to know for sure without being there and knowing the circumstances.  The clip seemed to show the dog trying to bite the handler.   Unless a person was there.......

I'm no expert but it seems that this dog is pushing his handler... barking at him and then biting him on the handlers hands. The dog seems to have some handler aggression issues. IMO this dog has no respect for his handler and essentially blowing him off, even trying to start up a fight among his handler. I don't necessarily know what's was going on in this situation, however to be open minded... The handler was trying establish the dominance to the dog whom also was trying to show dominance to the handler.

I say that this is acceptable in some cases.

Oh I forgot to add that I see some frusteration in this dog. He wants to do something so bad (I guess hes doing bitework???)... and the handler isn't letting the dog do what he wants so he gets frusterated and then barks and bites at the handler.

Here will be one of the few times you will hear me say something negative an bout law enforcement.....

Not cruelty but completely 100% unacceptable. Unfortunately this is not uncommon with law enforcement k9 training and handlers. Out here in California it is getting better but  slowly.

I am getting so frustrated with the whole "pack rank order" and dominance mindset I am ready to Puke! I have been keeping my mouth shut lately about this subject. This is why I have such a problem with Ceaser "dipshit" Whisperer. People listen to this bullshit and start spreading the word.

Anyone who thinks this is a dominance or handler aggression issue, has never had or seen a dog with real dominance or handler aggression issues. If this were the case, that handler would have been chewed to hell. He had no control over the dog and that dog could have bitten him just about anytime he wanted to. This guy has no idea what he is doing and obviously the "trainer" doesn't either. So it's not really the handlers fault, he doesn't know any better. This is what all "trainers" resort to when the don't know what else to do.

That dog was in drive. That's it. Simple as that. There is nothing wrong with his head other than he has no idea why his handler is doing what he is doing. He is in drive and instead of attempting to "cap" the drive (I am sure neither one have any idea what that means) they must establish "Dominance". There are so many things wrong with this I won't even attempt to point them out.

I see this all the time. There is nothing you can do about it. The only thing you can do is take your dog out and demonstrate a better way of doing things and hopefully someone gets an epiphany.

I am not saying rank order is not a part of dog training. It is but it is not the end all be all and it is not the problem every time a dog doesn't listen to you. We are pst the days of Bill Koehler. We are in the 21st Century now.

 I just encourage people to think "outside the box".

I personally thought it was a very disgusting video and also a disgusting way to handle a dog.   And a " good"  (bad) way to ruin a dog.  Had it been one of my dogs he did that to he would be walking around with part of his face gone.

Oh I forgot to add that was a nice dog.

I will  take him when they get rid of him for biting his handler.

A opinion from a n00b point of view. I have absolutely no experience whatso ever so this is just a gut reaction. To me, it seemed like the handler was attempting to gain control of a dog using submission techniques. After the first roll and hold down perhaps he should have allowed at some point the dog to go at what he was driven for. My main problem with the video, besides the roughness which I can understand with a totally out of control dog, is that no where was there positivie reinforcement. When he told the dog to sitz, the dog did, there was no reward at all. To me, the whole training session was to the negative instead of a balance. Of course we do not know how well this dog knew the handler etc. and perhaps with the dog in high drive if the handler would have ( when the dog did as asked) give him a minute to go at the other object or even a ball the training session might have been different and the dog somewhat calmer.

Am I to off base here?

I need to learn these things :)
Therese