Gettin Mink through Crok VS Jago - Page 1

I would like to hear opinions on the difference between getting Mink lines through G Crok vom Erlenbusch VS V Jago von der Lindenhalle.

What are you getting different, Pro's and Con's.(Besides the obvious of G VS V rating)

I am looking more at working ability, drives, overall temperament, and health.

Looking to learn something and hopefully start an intelligent, informative thread

Thanks

I like Jago, but that's probably only because he's got herding title too!  I'm a bit biased!

Get a real dog, I think both dogs are very good overall pedigree for sure. I would certainely look at the puppy/dog which ever first and then the pedigree second. I think I prefer Jago even tho the pedigrees are both super but there is a larger percentage of some handler aggression with some Crok stuff. I do like the fact that there is not line breeding at all with Crok that always has a lot of weight when I am looking at any pedigree for sure.  I love outcross dogs and think they clear a lot of gene pool issues with a breeding program. I think Jago is a amazing dog in work and looks and from what I have been told was a very stable level headed clear dog which is somethiing else I like good nerves. I dont think you can go to wrong with any great working line pedigree as both dogs have.

Marlene 

• Which dog has a better reproduction record?
• Which dog is better at producing males?    If your looking for a male....
• These are easy questions to answer!

If they are easy, why not enlighten me Dennis?

i have to cast my vote for jago.  males and females coming from jago are both fine.  if you have your heart set on mink by way of crok, you might be better off doing it thru the female.  this can of worms has been opened and reopened so many times...........

just one thing i would add:   all the drive and all the hardness in the world is useless if there is no trainability.  so if drive and hardness is what you seek, please keep that in mind.

pjp

I like both.  I have had excellent results breeding Fero lines to Crok lines, for outstanding grips, temperament (very strong but no handler aggression) and nerve strength.  I like to see Jago in a pedigree as well, though my own experience has him a generation away from what I've used for Crok.  What I don't like (personally) to see bringing Mink in is Lewis - lots of health problems and "ugly" also there.  I won't use Lewis in my program for those two reasons, but I do like  Mink through Crok and Jago.

molly

Jago was not a dog you were tempted to, let alone encouraged by Dieter, to pet. Very serious dog, 'way too much for most handlers, even at 12+ yrs. old. May be the hardest dog I ever met.

He was KK1, but he was huge.

Somewhere I have pix I took of him last time I saw him at Dieter's club. Sons too. (also discouraged from petting by Dieter) Both could produce extreme handler hardness/aggression.

I agree with Molly here. No Lewis in my breeding program ever again, for the same reasons.

SS

Thank you to those who have given feedback. I am not looking for a puppy. I already have one. This is why I am asking. I want to make sure of what I am seeing, what I should be seeing, and if what I am seeing is what I should be seeing. Additonally, I am new to shepherds so I am always trying to learn.

My little pup is from Mink through a female Jago littermate on Mom's side. It is a little way back but my pup seems to be taken more from Mom's side. She is not what I would call a hard dog or handler hard. I would actually say she is on the sensative side. (but she is young and I have only corrected her twice). She is definatley drivey.  She carries aggression and has shown she will transfer that aggression to the handler when frustrated, so it would not surprise me if she comes up the line from time to time when she gets older. I don't mind and kind of like that in a dog. I would not call her pretty though.

It seems as though she has some of what that line is supposed to bring and I like that in a dog.

Thanks to those that gave me some good imput and knowlege from their experience. It is hard to extract information from alot of knowlegable people about lines and breeding for some reason.

I would love to hear from others with knowlege and experience with these lines.

AJ Singh are you out there?

Thanks again to those that offered input.

Hi:

I was just going to sit on the side lines and listen to the experts, up until you asked for me.  My experience has been different than Shelly's and Molly's, may be the individual dogs were different.  My C-litter is a cross between Troll and Lewis (Mink's son) daughter - Tessa.  I had no missing teeth, no missing testicles, no long coats from that litter and the repeat litter.  My dog Chief is SG, KKL1 (not ugly I guess), his brother Count is also KKL1 (not ugly, I guess) and his sister Caasha is SG, KKL2, (not ugly).  All the dogs xrayed from the litter had OFA good hips or A-normal/fast normal hip rating.  A number of these dogs are titled or are police dogs.  So, I did not do too bad with Lewis blood.  I bred Caasha to Carlo, who is Jago son, and had only two dog going to working homes.  This is my G-litter, and as you can see they are line bred on Troll and Mink.  Grando is SchH2, and Gamo is SchH3.   Gamo competed at the North American Championship this year with a novice handler, and hopefully Grando will be at the Regional Championship this year.  Shelley  and Leon, When they were together, had a Lewis daughter that they had bred to Fero a number of times.  The puppies were not ugly.  I don't have anything against Crok, and as a matter of fact I like the Ajax dog Griselda has on her site, who is linebred on Crok (2-3) but he does not look Crok-type to me.  Sometimes you have to pay attention to the individual dogs first before thinking too much about the lines. 

I hope it helps.  If you have any questions, you can always call me.  I hate writing lengthy emails.

Ajay Singh

www.ajaysingh.com