I need advice - Page 1

I have a 15 year old son that is ADHD w/ Oppositional/Defiance disorder and Impulsivity. He is very active and always seems to be in perpetual motion.

I brought Tino home and the first 2 days my son( Justin) was not home. Tino bonded very quickly to me. When my son came home I went thru appropriate introductions with the both of them. From day 1 Tino seems to have an issue with my son, to the point that I would not trust them to be together in the house alone. Tino will sit beside me and if my son seems to get to close to me Tino will growl. Not every time but most of the time. I have tried everything that I know of, letting Justin feed Tino, hand feed treats, play ball, etc.  Tino has unbelievable ball drive but will not give up the ball once he gets it lol While I was gone for a week it was up to my son to care for the dogs and Tino would play ball with him out in the yard  but as soon as I came back Tino went back to the way he was. It may be that Tino picks up on the tension between my son and myself, Justin is very difficult most times and we butt heads constantly. When Justin is in the house Tino finds the farthest corner to stay away from him or sticks as close to me as possible if I am sitting down.  I dont know if Tino feels he needs to protect me from Justin or if it is the testosterone thing  going on or what. I need advice about what I can do to get them to accept each other. Justin was a little to pushy when Tino first came here and I  explained to him that he has to let Tino come to him and not force himself on Tino, Perhaps that got things off on the wrong foot and it may never be mended? The only history I have on Tino so far is he was once with a family of 4 kids then went to a couple of breeders and was kenneled. I doubt he has ever been in the house much, he chews on everything if you turn your back for a second, is definately not housebroke and very much a handful.

I know I need to find a trainer but I need to find an affordable one. I want to be able to keep Tino in the house with me, especially when my son is gone overnight and I am home alone. I live in a very rural area that is very close to a tourist area, we have alot of folks coming up to camp on the lake from Houston.  I am a Single Mom, finances are always tight. My son will be leaving home in a couple of years and Tino will be my protection, of which I have no doubt he will at least intimidate someone if not bite. I will not give up and rehome Tino, he will be with me until he crosses over to rainbow bridge. Any constructive suggestions are most welcome :)   

wow, you have a tough situation there.

how long have you had the dog?

I would have Justin feed the dog, walk the dog, work with it on obedience until he fully accepts your son as an alpha pack member. Explain to Justin the need for this, it's for his safety. Don't wait until something goes wrong.

Look up NILIF on the net. That may be helpful for you.

I have it here copied somewhere but don't know how to post it.

Houston has several groups. There is one on the southside which is far from you. Dayton and Magnolia.

Sounds like a train wreck waiting to happen!  I am sorry, but I would never put a dog before my kids!  It is a MUST at my house that all dogs that live here get along with my kids.  The dogs can like the kids or be indifferent, but NEVER would I put up with groweling at the kids or their guests!  As I see it, if your son and the dog don't get along this is not going to work, someone is going to get bit!  There are dogs out there that could probably provide for your needs better and safer for your son!  I would equate this situation to keeping a rattle snake in my house, something bad is bound to happen!

Vickie

www.PowerHausKennels.com

Hi Shandra,

Let me first say that I have a master's degree in special education, experience in the classroom with children with the same disorder, and I also am a novice training in Schutzhund.  I have other experiences with training dogs also.

That being said, I believe the problem has little to do with your son's disorder.  It sounds like you have a dominant dog who is establishing himself as your second in command--- the family member who makes himself closest to you, the house Alfa--- over your son, who is definately third in command, if not lower.  Perhaps any tension between the two of you makes the dog feel you support his move to take higher rank.  You are reinforcing the dog's belief by having your son assume a subordinate position of respect to the dog in some way--- subordinates give up their food to superiors, give up right of way through "trails",  though the superiors might also dein to play with their subordinates. 

I cannot completely advise you on how to correct this, as I cannot see all the particulars.  It is possible that the dog will bite your son someday if he is allowed to continue to think himself higher in rank. 

Though some have poo-pooed Leerburg on this site, but he has a video and lots of free advice on his website with how to deal with a dominant dog that seems very valid to me.  It is www.leerburg.com

Don't give up on your dog.  He's still young...(though I am not sure how old he is?)....you can work on it.  What I know about some of the general methods is that all human family members need to make him sit before he goes outside, human family members go first up the stairs and through a door.  One thing you can do, if the dog is not very old, and not too resistant to the change going on.....put a pinch collar on the dog, when he growls, have your son give a yank (you probably do not need to yank the youndog's head off) and have him make the dog go into a down.  Train the down first, before you start it.  Start pup's basic obedience, if you have not already done so, and you should use motivational methods, but when your son gives a command, the dog has to obey.  The dog has to learn that your son has higher rank than him. 

Good luck,

Veronica

From what you're describing it sounds like the dog wasn't much more than a dog someone stuck out in a kennel and just fed and bred.  This would explain why he's old enough to be past the chewing everything in site stage and the housebreaking issue.  If he's chewing up everything in the house he's definately bored just laying around the house.  These dogs especially one's with higher drives need to be tuckered out and worked.  I'm not sure what your living arrangements are-if the dog has a fenced yard to run in or if you are an active person that likes to take walks or jogs but letting him lay around isn't gonna help matters.

The issue with your son and the dog...if he's not showing any agression and just doesn't want to be bothered with him then that's not to say he a dangerous dog.  My dog who is very well balanced and extremely even tempered just doesn't really care to hang out with the kids and I have 4.  He'll play ball with them-he won't give up his ball to THEM and they get upset because when I or my husband play ball he always brings it to us, but this is just because the dog knows they're kids, they're not his master so he blows them off.  When he feels like being petted by the kids he'll go over at his leisure but most of the time he stays clear of them because well they probably annoy the hell out of him. lol  He's never lifted his lip, growled or shown any sign he'd nip/bite- he wouldn't dare dream of it but I've also explained to the kids when he gets up and walks away to lay down somewhere YOU LEAVE HIM ALONE!  They feed him, give him treats when I say it's OK but everything is always supervised despite the fact I trust him-HE'S STILL AN ANIMAL. 

Since you don't have much background on the dog I'd see if you can contact a club in your area to explain what your concerns are.  Someone there may be willing to have you bring the dog for an evaluation to give you a better honest picture of what's going on with him.  If you haven't had him very long it may just be he's not acclimated to everyone yet.  Don't give up on him but if you're told by an expert not to trust him around your son-I'd have to tell you to really take their advice because it could be a bad situation for both the dog and your son.  He may just be the type of dog that shouldn't live with kids....some dog are like that due to poor breeding, socializing and training.  Good Luck to you and keep us posted.

One thing you can do, if the dog is not very old, and not too resistant to the change going on.....put a pinch collar on the dog, when he growls, have your son give a yank (you probably do not need to yank the youndog's head off) and have him make the dog go into a down.  Train the down first, before you start it.  Start pup's basic obedience, if you have not already done so, and you should use motivational methods, but when your son gives a command, the dog has to obey.  The dog has to learn that your son has higher rank than him. 

It looks to me like this dog is not a very young dog so I'd be very very careful with trying to apply this.  Not seeing this dog in person and not knowing EXACTLY what is happening this can be dangerous to have a teenager do.  Especially if your son has the least bit of fear towards him.  Like Powerhaus said this is a train wreck waiting to happen if not handled properly. 

I know that money is an issue, however if you really want to keep this dog you may need to go to an experience trainer/behaviorist.

I agree that this dog sounds like he has dominance issues.  It might be easy to fix, but it's hard to give advice that you can apply effectively without seeing exactly what is happening.

JMHO

I agree with Powerhaus, your dog MUST go. Do NOT WAIT TILL JOSH NEEDS STITCHES OR WORSE! My opinion, since you asked for them, is never put your dog before your children. Sell him and buy a different dog. You cannot re-program (fully) a dog with that kind of issue. Trainers tell you they can, but they want to make $$$ so why wouldnt they? I have a 6 month old that got possessive over his food with my 2 year old and snapped at her, it was on this site and up for sale within a week. I used to have an incredible male when I met my then to be future wife. She had 2 kids and when I introduced them to Max he growled and tried to bite, GONE! (by the way Max went on to protect a lady and have 5 live bites!) Now I have a west german show male who is the perfect family protector, civil, tolerant of kids, aloof to strangers but not aggressive, and ready to rumble if need be. I think these lines are better suited for your environment than "working lines". The main reason (beyond what I just said) is that show dogs tend to "think" a little more than the working GSD's.

I do not believe in ADHD or Defiance disorder, but that should not be a factor in your decision. It is a simple question when it all comes down to it, can you trust the dog with your son ALL THE TIME? If no, then get one that is, it isnt hard to find a GSD that can meet your requirements.

You are asking for advice and consrtuctive suggestions. Please take this as that.

I worked with emotionally distrubed and developmentally disabled kids for 6 years. I worked at a school for 4 of them. I had a class of K-3rd grade of 12 students. 8 of the 12 students were unmedicated ADHD. I have alot of exerience with both ADHD and Oppositonal Defiance Disorder.

So lets take a look at  what you have here.....

You have a son with some problems. As you very well aware a child with ADHD lacks the ability to stay focused on any one thing for any length of time, are hyper-active, and impulsive. This is bad news for any dog. Now you have the ODD, which as you know, means your child will initally oppose and defy your suggestions and instructions.

You have a dog that has been bounced around and isolated to some extent. Why was the dog given up by the family with 4 kids? You describe a dog that is driven and possessive and very well could have separation anxiety issuses. This is a bad, bad, very bad, combination.

 I commend you for understanding and seeking a trainer but your are asking for an "affordable one". Even if you found an "affordable" trainer. It would take huge amounts of time for a situation like this which means alot of money any way you look at it. On top of that, are you going to find a trainer that understands your childs condition and would be able to modify and adapt their training for the dog as well as your son?

I understand your feeling and situation. Believe me I do, but your son is more important than the dog. You need to put the well being of him and the dog before your feelings. From the information you have provided. my opinion is this is a disaster waiting to happen. I am a dog trainer and have worked with many children who share the same difficulties as your son. My suggestion and feelings are the right thing to do for everyone is find that dog a more suitable home. It is the right thing to do.

I know this is not the answer you are looking for. I'm sorry.

The right dog could be a great addition to your family and be very benificial and theraputic for both you and your son.

Find a big, good natured, laid- back, Labrador Retriever, that likes to rough house, and will bark when people come up to your property. That is the kind of dog you guys need.

Good luck.