Dog was not as represented - Page 1

My first post didn't show up - have no idea why.  Anyway,  I won't go into as much detail this time, for fear it was deleted because of that.  In a nutshell, has anyone here bought a dog from a certain breeder in Iowa, and been bitterly disappointed because the dog was not as it was represented?

seaecho: it wasnt deleted  go ahead and reenter. Sometimes when you think you hit submit , your little finger may have hit ctrl and   whallallah it gone...I've done it twice and had to re load a pic , twice...Oli , isn't even around lately, so he couldn't have done a delete that quick..He doesn't do  much deleting..

Also, there is a limit to the length of posts you can make. If your post was too long, it just won't show up. I'm guessing that's what happened here.

You got that right Sunsilveer ,,,we long winded women have to get it all on paper....

still waiting for your re-post.  i'm in iowa and curious about your bitter disappointment.  perhaps this is something that can be resolved by communicating with the breeder?

pjp

Maybe he or she lost his spine too. hehe

Why doesn't it just TELL you when you run out of space instead of  just not showing up???  Anyway, no, I didn't lose my spine. My dial-up has been slow and I found I couldn't post her for a while.

I bought a dog that was 7 mos. old, solid black, half DDR and half W. German working lines. Really top bloodlines.  I told the breeder what I was looking for, and had done many months of research, wanting to make an informed decision. I wanted just the right dog.   I told her I wanted a very large female with a big head. Masculine looking.  With a rock stable temperament.  When we picked up the pup at the airport, I was shocked.  She looked to be 3 and a half to 4 months old - tiny, IMO. Her head is not big by any means.  My dogs in the past have been 90-120 lbs.  She had assured me this dog would certainly grow to be 100 lbs.  Well, she's a year old now and 64 lbs!  Not to say that big of a dog is desirable, but its what I wanted.  This dog is also very independent - will run out of our gate if you don't grab onto her, then won't come back.  Very hard headed. Also, if she has something in her mouth, you have to chase her to retrieve it. My GSDs in the past were nothing like her.  They were sensitive and responsive.  She is also much more bonded to the pack than to us - another huge difference.  She reminds me more of a wild animal than a domestic dog. The biggest issue of all is her timidity.  I had to DRAG her out of the crate at the airport, and she will still put on the brakes when taken out in public around people or anything she is not familiar with.  We have taken her out very frequently, hoping to overcome this problem, but I am now convinced its her inborn temperament, and its not good.  Nervy is not the word for her.  Terrified is more like it.  She will hide behind me if a person gets too close to her, and then will panic and thrash at the end of the leash if they approach her, rearing up like a horse in an effort to get away.  I've gotten basic obedience on her and she does very well. I could live with her small size,  and work with her independent nature, but is a stable temperament too much to ask for?

I have talked to the breeder many times about the problem, but she would only insist the dog would "get over" it eventually, when she was fully adjusted to her new home. She claimed she'd been well socialized.   Well, we've had her for 5 months now, and there has been no improvement. I also could not get the full pedigree on the dam's side - the breeder mistakenly sent only the back of it. I asked her over and over for the full pedigree, but she claimed her scanner had broken down and she hadn't yet gotten another.  This went on for two months.  I was finally able to get the pedigree from someone who was nice enough to direct me to it. (I didn't realize I only needed the SZ number).  The breeder did offer to take the dog back, but she would only pay for the shipping - nothing extra.  That would have left me with no money to get another dog.  She claimed she'd have the dog trained "right," sell her, and then send me the purchase money, but after the deal with the pedigree, I no longer trust her.  What would you do?

SeaEcho- What would I do??? Hmmm.....well since you can't make some sort of deal with the breeder trading the dog for another is not an option; so you're kinda stuck like chuck where that's concerned.  So the only thing now you can do is training with someone that can maybe work out some of the kinks to this dog.  Realistically all of them probably can't be "fixed" to make it the dog you were hoping for BUT at least it will be a dog you can live with that isn't gonna be the boss, and from what you described she IS the boss right now.

seaecho,  Maybe it's just the way I am reading your post....  from what I am reading it really sounds as though this dog is not yet "bonded" with you in a way that she sees you as the "Pack Leader"   The pack leader is the "Backbone" of the pack if you will...  That being said, if you are confident and omit that confidence when in new places/situations the dog will feel that confidence and "back you up"  eventually if you have a great dog they will step up to the plate with you.   But she's not there yet,  her young age, and her instability with her "Pack Leader" (you) is causing her to be uneasy in those situations....  

I would say get someone to work with you and the dog,  and really start putting your confidence out there, and asserting your leadership,  You might be surprised how quickly she may turn around for you and begin gaining that needed confidence.

I have studied Coyotes for years... Wolves too but only by Video documentary's, books, and TV show specials....  However from my experience with the close study of coyotes I can tell you that the Dominanat male and female or "breeding pair" are the Pack Leaders,  and they are the ones who ALWAYS instigate/initiate any action, be it hunting, scouting, feeding, patrol.  Now on patrol,  if the pack encounters a coyote who does not belong within they're territory the leaders will first assess the situation, then move forward,  and with that forward movement comes the rest of the bunch,  they will ALWAYS back the leaders, and in fact as pups grow older and more confident, they will step up to the plate at the same time as the leaders,  I've seen as many as 5 (pack members) on 1 (poor lonely) coyote,  the intruder is typically ran off and when the pack leaders decide the chase is over the rest of them quit also....when hunting,  The pack leaders are the ones who choose the animal of predation,  They will locate a herd of deer and study them a while.... then they will begin this daunting relentless trot type of pursuit,  the coyote can carry this gait forever it seems and they will switch or change up each member will take the "hot seat" (closer chase) and they will switch this often,  bursts of energy will be put forth in an effort to more quickly tire the animal and a weakned animal can NOT keep pace and eventually splits from it's herd,  from there it's pretty quick work to pull the animal down to expiration.  and no single member seems to have a "certain" role when this takes place they all just kinda grab what they can....

if you put this into your relationship with this dog, well she is not yet a "member" of the pack in her mind (bonded)  and she's also having trouble identifying who the leader is... so when she is out with you she does not feel that sense of "protection in #'s pack mentality" or even the "follow the leader into battle"  or hunting mode.

Sea echo,

The behavior you have described is NOT correct temperment for a quality GSD.  Terrified of strangers??  Hiding behind you??  5 months and no signs of progress??  This is not "normal" behavior, and I don't think it has anything to do with bonding. 

Unless you have a written contract that clearly spells out the terms of return, you may not have a legal leg to stand on to force her to return your purchase price.  If she will pay shipping to return the dog, and makes some claims that she would refund the purchase price once she resells the dog, I would do it if I were in your shoes.  A fearful dog is nothing but a liability IMO. 

I'm not telling you what to do, I'm just trying to present how I would handle the situation, for your consideration.

However, one point to consider... you will be hard pressed to find ANY reputable breeder of quality GSD's that is breeding 100 lb females.  That is WAY outside the breed standard.  Ludicrously huge.  No show line breeder will produce dogs that huge - the dogs would get disqualified from the show ring in a heartbeat.  No working line breeder will produce dogs that huge either - the dog's working ability would be hampered by their ponderous size. 

If you really want a 100 lb female, you should consider another breed - perhaps a Shiloh Shepherd breeder would produce a female that bulky.

Yvette