Oli- please remove videos of me and my dog from thread - Page 1

Oli-  Please remove the videos and pictures of me and my dog on this thread-Sorry I couldn't post this under shutzhund will die... I did not give permission for them to be placed on the internet nor had I any knowledge that they were going to pop up without my consent.  Apparently this has been done for ones personal kicks and I don't appreciate my privacy being violated for ones pleasure and entertainment.  This person intended to start crap, stir a pot and I don't appreciate my picture plastered on the net unles I myself put it there.  Thank you for your consideration and cooperation.

BTW I did ask this person to remove the videos at once but my guess is that only you can do this.

I just got done watching the videos of you and your dog Agar on You tube.

These videos don't tell me anything but the fact is that the dog seems very confuse at the situation. According to what I saw on the videos this dog has never had any personal protection training under his belt. He only had Schutzhund type training, which is the reason why he was only interested in the sleeve and not at the actual perpetrator.

You said on the other thread “It was completely unfair to put a trained competition dog who's had limited exposure to real life scenarios with staging the scene as the way it was done without commands and having him held on a 6ft lead.”

I totally agree with you. I also notice that the person who was holding the lead wasn't pumping up Agar when you were being attacked. Why wasn't he pumping up Agar?

Brittany,

If you were really attacked, who would hold your dog and "pump him up" for you? If he has in fact had limited exposure then why is anyone suprised by the results? I still can't figure this out, what is the deal here?

Flipfinish, My dogs never had personal protection training under their belts, only Schutzhund type protection (the sleeve), so if I was to get attacked I would not expect my dogs to protect me because they weren't train to do it. Our dogs aren't machines, they're living breathing creatures.

A dog must have proper training under their belts in order to achieve a task, for instance a police dog isn't a police dog without extensive training. I assume that while the dog is a green police  dog that the handler pats the dog in the rib area and pumps him up and to use a command to attack the suspect (the decoy).

I'm actually pleased by the videos that was posted up on youtube. The dog (Agar) didn't do anything without a command. This is good on Agar's owner part because if 1 of her friends decided to play rough with her, to the point that she screams, the last thing she needs over her head is a big lawsuit for a dog bite that could have been prevented by using command to bite.

A lady I know imported a number of Schutzhund dogs from Germany. She had been contracted to train them for security work for NASA.

It took A LOT of reprogramming to convince these dogs to bite anything but the sleeve, and to teach them that 'bite' meant 'bite' regardless of what the person was wearing!

My take on it is this: few dogs are 'naturals' at personal protection. THEY HAVE TO BE TRAINED, just like Schutzhund dogs have to be trained on the sleeve. I think it was unfair to expect this dog to bite when he had never had training for protection work.

If those of you with more experience than me want to dispute this, I'll eat my words, but that's my opinion for what it's worth.

Brittany- The reason it was a bogus scene is because the guy who was calling the shots and had something to prove to me was the one who decided my husband was to hold the dog and was not allowed to give any commands while he attacked me from a distance.  This really didn't make much sense to us.  Agar was only introuduced to hidden equipment and had limited expossure to real life scenario training before I got him. 

Flip- exactly- why would anyone be surprised given the circumstances.  You would have had to read the entire saga to get the big picture but please spare yourself it's a waste of time the guys an idiot!

The way I was told this scenario should have been presented to in fact test the dogs intent and gain his full reaction to a real situation  was to have had me holding the lead, put the dog on a down stay and then the staged attack should have taken place so that the dog clearly knew this was a for real time to deal with the threat.  Most who've seen my dog work claim they'd bet if given THAT scenario without a doubt someone would have gotten bit for real.  Agar is a sweet dog-it's true he'd lick your face, he'd play with your kids, he's a cool dog-he's not a killer, he's not CUJO but then again who the hell wants or needs a dog like that? I wanted a protection dog not a liability dog.  He has what it takes and it's being proven to me now through transitioning him over from sport to real life scenario work.  It's only been about a month and what a HUGE difference already.  He's not all about the sleeve sleeve sleeve.  It was just bad all the way around and I should have done my homework before I even put myself and the dog in that situation.

Agar,

Ok then. I did read the entire set of posts and am at the very least confused. Guess it is not my fight. I am glad your boy is progressing in training. Here is a bit of encouragement for you, I too once had a schutzhund "sleeve" dog and we did successfully train him to be a good protection dog. I do think that video should be a wake up call to people who say "my dog would protect me naturally", not always the case. But then again, a real attacker would be nervous and I think dogs "sense" when someone is up to no good and they do tend to react differently. That said I would never go hunting without test firing my gun, same with my dog. When old couch potato came time to be tested I really let the "bad guy" put it on him. To the point of pain for my boy, I had to know if the chips were down what would happen. I found out ol couch potato (no prey drive at all) has another level of "pisstivity" when put into extreme stress and fight mode. It was neat, like a turbo getting spooled up. I now KNOW my boy would protect under extreme circumstances. Probably wont come to that because when you get near my house the windows rattle, then you see ol' couch potato and lazy as he is, he is big and clearly a GSD (visual deterrent) and it makes me smile.

I am sick like that. Agar, I wish you the best. Good luck, for what it is worth I am jealous of Agar's look. Love the black sables!

Thanks Flip and to so many of the others who emailed me today and had such wonderful things to say.  It was a nice twist to see how people can come together to bring someone back up when they took a hit unprovoked.

Brittany-  You made a good point.  The control is something we've been working on over and over and over again and I am more than satisfied with Agar's obedience.  That in my book was THE MOST IMPORTANT thing.  I was lucky enough to have good people behind me in the beginning that were so patient and taught me that it's gotta be perfect or it's just not right.  This is another thing to consider-Agar lives in a house with 4 little kids under the age of 12.  Youngest is 1-need I say more.  ANY dog that lives in my house GSD or not, SCH trained or not MUST be stable in the head enough to deal with my chaotic house.  I work from home, have people in and out frequently I don't need a time bomb but a dog that is well balanced.  It's all good- I have no worries or complaints about Agar he's my boy.

If trainers want to know how to train a dog in REAL personal protection they should study the little ankle biters who will chew your ass up if you stand to close to grandma when she is sitting on the couch.

There is never a question if one of these dogs will protect their owner.  5 lb cockapoo will chew you up!

Schutzhund trained dogs bite sleeves and bark at helpers.  Period.  Unless additional training is given or the dog has natural protection tendencies.  It is not fair to take a Schutzhund trained dog and give it a scenario of the owner being attacked by an intruder, and expect that it will perform admirably.  Some may but most won't and the ones that don't are not necesarily bad for personal protection.  They just need to be trained in that aspect.

I submit that if a dog has the natural tendency to protect its' owner, then it will, with or without Schutzhund training, and if the dog is Schutzhund trained and it does not have the natural tendency to protect its' owner from an attacking intruder, then it probably will not.

I do not participate in Schutzhund but I have trained personal protection dogs and have always thought that if Schutzhund would just use hidden sleeves and mock homes, for their training, the sport and the owners would be better served, with a better chance that their schutzhund trained dog would come to their rescue in a crisis time.