Is It True If You Breed A Solid Black Female To a Black/Red Male You Get All Bi-color Pups? - Page 1

I'm going to be getting an all black 5yr old female working line in a few days. she will be in heat with in the month. i have all Show line male that is b/r. i would like to put her with him as i love the working/show cross, but do not want all bi-color pups.  i do have another choice of an all working line male that is sable color, if it was you what would you do? showline or working line male?

just like the old flower experiments in Bio 101 in college, you'll get an array of coloration. depending on the size of the litter you may not always get an all black.

what would i do, well i would honestly educate myself some more first. you can't just say well i'll breed to the show dog cause it will make pretty pups that can work and you like the cross... if you like the way the particular lines cross well then i can see that. a one time shot, ya maybe you'll get the pup you want but it takes alot of education and skill to keep carrying on this cross and continuing the line. and saying breeding to the working dog will give you dogs that will work is not the case either.
you will more then likely get all normal black/tan, especially using a typical modern show dog. i believe most of the very dark black/tan/ bi colours are very tough to find in the modern show dog. I believe this was more typical of the Mutz line... which is long way back now and if im not mistaken was phased out because of the colour the line produced. someone like Silbersee may be able to add to that.

with the sable you can get everything.

good luck

Dan Juros
www.hausjuros.com

To answer your question as it is asked.

No.

Breeding a black/tan(red) to a black, CAN result in blk/tan, bi, and blacks. (also dilutes and whites are possible).

Blk/tan is dominant, so the blk/tan dog can carry another blk/tan gene, or bicolor gene, or black gene as each dog carries two color genes.
The blk dog will only carry black.

If the Blk/tan dog is from Euro showlines, it is not likely he carries bicolor or black. Therefore all pups from the two would (most likely) be blk/tan. 
If he carries bicolor, you would have blk/tan and bicolor puppies.
If he carries black, you would have blk/tan and blk puppies.

--Mary

I would doubt that the bl/red show line dog carries bicolor or black.  More likely he carries only bl/red.  Puppies bred to a black female will all be bl/red with more black coverage than the sire - in other words, they will all be "blanket back" bl/red or bl/tan.  No bicolors, probably.  All puppies will carry black recessive though.

molly

Bi-color is a color all to itself-you don't get bi-color simply from breeding blk/red to black. You get it from dogs who have bi-color in their pedigrees or who are bi-color themselves.
If this black bitch has any colored hairs in between her toes or underneath on her footpads, be aware she is genetically either a bi-color or super dark sable herself, not a 'true' black. The chances of you seeing black pups from a combo with a female like this and a blk/red male will be very low. You will more likely see blk/reds blanket backed like Molly said.
Some blk/red show line GSDs carry the black gene, but some do not (I have 3 blk/red show line GSDs who do carry the black gene). There's no way  to know for certain unless the blk/red stud you consider has been bred with black in the past has produced black pups from such.

I would primarily consider what I'm producing puppies for in the first place and what I would be expecting from the progeny, too-that also should decide what kind of stud to use-not merely his color.

The b/r stud is my own dog out of pure German show line so there would be no black in there at all. So I guess it would be safe to say this would not be an issue. I just had a friend of mine that had the same set up and both her litters had most if not all bi-color pups. Now I did not know much about the pedigree of the sire and dam just saw the litter.

The reason I would want to breed to the show line over the working line is I do not like to high of a drive in my dogs. I want them to be what they are bread to be but not taking the skin off of my kids’ ankles :) I’m not looking to get an all black show line dog I just want the best color and structure I can get from my dogs, as well as stable minded, the darker the better for me :) I just have a lot of respect for the breeders that have chosen to go down this road with the work/show cross dogs and there are some really great looking dogs coming from that set up. That is my plain with this breeding. I’m just starting out with this endeavor so I just want to be sure I do it right.

So thanks to all for your replies to this post, I will go ahead and breed her to my male and see what comes of it.

Are the dogs titled and hips/elbows X-rayed?  Or are you doing this just for fun?

This is a basic example of what you would get.   Black working Dam,   Black/ Red Showline Sire


She is 1 yr in this photo





Here she was at 8 weeks





Here is a 19 month old Half brother same mother by different Showline Sire



Here he is at 5-6 weeks



Just to give you some different views of color and how they change as they mature.