Question for breeders - Page 1

When you guarantee a puppy for HD< how do you handle the replacement of the pup?  Recently , I received a call from a breeder in Dallas , that ask my opinion..They had a pup with bad HD at the age of 11 mos..They ask the buyer to go ahead and put the pup down,  That was done last week,. The buyer emailed the breeder and said the sad day had come...and did they have any female pups available..The breeder does have a litter with several females in it , that are not sold....SHe emailed customer back, saying yes. Buyer emailed back and said "WHen can we come pic our pup?"      Question is now:   How do you handle the buyer picking the pup...There are already two people with deposits on two of the female pups, to pic theirs at 4 weeks old....The buyer was told this and that after the people on the list, of whom have been on the list before the pair were bred , waiting on a pup from that female., had picked theirs , then she could come and a pup would be decided on...Breeder informed her she was replacing the pup as a courtisey, as the breeder only replaces pup at one year old ,with severe cases of HD. All pups after one year of age, are not replaced, as breeder cannot have a say in how that pup was fed or cared forllll

Buyer emailed, back ,rudely saying that  Oh, I get the left overs, I guess I dont have much choice in the matter....The pups in this litter are being sold at Three Hundred more dollars than the pup she purchased....Breeder told her she would set aside a pup, and that non of the pups were considered "Left overs" and that since there was no contract, guaranteeing the pup, it was her courtisey to replace the pup, as a good breeder in good standing with her customers....

How do the breeders here, let the buyer of the replacement pic their pup, or does the breeder pick the pup, or does this buyer have to wait till the rest of llist already engaged with this litter, get their pick.:"? Thanks

Breeder already goes above and beyond what was guaranteed and buyer is still not happy... Did they get a 'leftover' last time, or an earlier pick? Buyer never has first pick anyways, that is always left to the breeder or someone close to the breeder. Most breeders assign pups to what would be a good fit, so there is no question as to left overs anyways. But never mind that. Simple answer they would get from me in this scenario is if they are not happy with what is left to choose from then they can wait for the next litter and get an earlier pick at that time. If they feel they cannot wait and prefer a pup from the current litter then they may choose from what is still available at the time they requested a replacement pup and that existing agreements with other buyers need to be honoured first. Would they be willing to give up their pick if they were one of the other buyers? Does not sound like it. Then they should not expect these people to do what they are not willing to do either.

If you "guarentee"(which is an inherent lie from the beginning, since you have no control over HD or other genetic defects in the gene pool, manifesting themselves in the uterus horns) a puppy, that buyer in my personal operations has priority over others waiting in line for a puppy.  I give a "warranty"(because in reality, you cannot "guarentee" ANYTHING that is a living breathing entity) with my pups and in the case mentioned, I would notify all waiting for a puppy of the development of events and that they are being moved down one space and the family with the defective dog comes before everyone eles, if they fall within the "warranty".  They pick first and then I continue with the dissemination of the remaining litter members. I have only had to do this one time so far and I gave the family the choice of keeping the dog and getting a healthy replacement(keeping both dogs) or returning the dog to me and getting the replacement at the earliest possible time available(which they did and I placed that dog in a nice home 8 months later with a family that did not care that she had severe HD, they just wanted here for whatever time they could have with her .  In my opinion, the buyer that has already paid his money has priority over those wanting to purchase a puppy.  You cannot lure/bait people in with promises of a "guarentee" then switch and give them a mediocre priority when it comes time to make good on your word.  This is another reason I do not understand the "deposit game".  If you take a deposit that is a "quasi contract", whereas if you just take payment in full at the time of acceptance of the puppy, when the unexpected occurs(a puppy needing replacement, for example), you have less or no hostility with all parties involved.  The others in line should understand and actually be relieved that should a problem arise, they TOO will be protected in a like manner.  Now I understand, if you are breeding dogs to pay the mortgage, your priorities are getting the next dollar in the coffers first and taking care of clients with defective dogs is somewhere in the distance, but you have to look at it from a standpoint of the person buying the puppy. 

Stephen

I agree with D.H.  You can have what is available now or wait for the next litter. 

"Three Hundred more dollars than the pup she purchased"

Sounds like they are already being offered a nicer puppy if the current puppies are $300 more than the puppy they bought. A lot of breeders would ask for the difference if they wanted a better puppy.

Also did they recieve "pick" the first time? If not, why do they think they should recieve "pick" now?

And like someone else said, pick to one person, may be last pick to another. It all depends on what they are looking for.  There is no such thing as "leftovers".  If they don't like the available pups, they can wait for a different litter. As much as breeders would like, we cannot plug into our bitches exactly what we want, and "wa-la' here they are, 8 perfect little puppies each designed just for you! Ha!

Last, if the buyer is being rude, there is a good chance they'll get nothing at all.  I don't understand why people think its ok to treat other people poorly to try to get more. Being nice goes a lot further.  Everyone should try it.

There was no guarantee...If you offer a guarantee , you only , in word , guarantee something done, not that it wont happen.....but in this breeders case, she guarantees nothing,,,,,only a healthy pup when leaves premises and that if a pup happens to be stricken with HD at one year or less , they feel they should replace the pup......

They do not think they should put the buyer first.....she had not a guarantee,  just a courtisey replacement, as the breeder wanted to make the family happy as they were not showing or sport training the pup...only bought it for family and protection of their home and person....

It was odd, that she thought she ought to be put first , when the breeder , in fact, did not have to replace the said pup,,,and calling them  "leftovers: was a strike in the heart and she just wanted an opinion, from other breeders and how they would feel it a buyer addressed it like that..

They dont read this site, but I agreed to relay any opinions.  Thanks

Commitments have already been made to other people for this litter.  It is not ethical to bump anyone down in my opinion.  My offer would be to either take the number choice that is available that fits what they want, or have #1 choice of what they are looking for in the next litter.  For instance, #1 medium drive female and #2 medium drive female choices have deposits on them, so what is available is #3 medium drive female.  Or they can have #1 medium drive female in the next litter when it comes available.  Or I'd give them a full money refund, their choice.

Having a pup come up with HD is heartbreaking for the owner, and so that makes it difficult for them to deal with the replacement situation with an even temper.  It would also be emotionally upsetting for the breeder, knowing she had produced a pup with HD who had to be put down, and all the upset that comes with this news.  She will now need to re-evaluate this mating match, the parents of the pup, and hope that there are no further issues with the rest of the litter. 

The breeder is offering a replacement, which is good of her.  The buyers are following her requests so far, which is good of them.  The remark concerning leftovers is understandable, considering the upset going on in this unhappy situation.  Many people don't realize that the puppies all have different personalities, and if three people were given the same #1 choice they would pick three totally different puppies out of the litter, and feel that they got the "best one", the rest of the puppies being the "leftovers" :-). 

Veronica

Agree they have to wait for the next free pup. I would give them at least as good as selection as they originally had or even better for their troubles.

IMO, this situation had nothing to do with needing to fill any coffers or not honouring the agreement to replace a pup. I feel such a comment was somewhat uncalled for. A replacement is made available after all. The way it has been described seems like a sound business decision to me that considers all obligations that need to be met. Always hard to do, to please everyone. Bumping another party back that has already made a downpayment can produce a whole host of other problems. No need for that. The downpayment means these two other parties have already paid as well, even if not in full yet. But with a downpayment they are in the same boat as the one who has already paid for a previous pup. Breeder and buyer have entered into a contract by exchanging and accepting funds and that needs to be honoured. Their buyer needs and standpoint need to be considered just as those of the person being awarded a replacement pup. Good puppy homes are hard enough to come by.
SGBH, in your scenario where monies had not been exchanged at the time you made a replacement available out of that litter, you did not have such obligations to meet because you do not take deposits. However, if I was a buyer and was told no downpayment needed and then got bumped I would feel that I got gybbed because someone else could not wait their turn and I would be very upset. If I was asked to step back and it was not that important to me I might be willing to wait, but I should not be expected to do so.
It sounds like these people are acting very much on impulse. And pups should never be placed or chosen on impulse, even if the home feels empty after a loss.
It it usually understood that a replacement is of similar quality. If that is what is being offered, then that should suffice. If it means waiting a bit for the next litter, then what is the problem with waiting? Good things are worth waiting for! Even after a loss.
Luvmidog, I have to admit that I do not fully understand the terms of the guarantee you describe. If the pup was diagnosed (stricken) with bad HD at 11 months, then does that not fall within the terms of the guarantee that you describe (one year or less)? Even if the pup was put down a few months after it was diagnosed. If the pup lived several years, different issue. How old was their dog when it was put down? Just curious.