Muzzle/Smock training for defense drive - Page 1

Since the topic of prey vs defense and the fear factor was so lively.  My question is does anybody use muzzle/smock training to develop or bring out a more pronounced defense response in their dog....for training other than strictly for law enforcement? 

The only reason that I would use a muzzle is to get a dog to use its body more, or maybe to build frustration in a clients dog. I personally like the ones that do all this on their own.

As far as wanting defense, why the heck would you want that???

Let me break it down for you my brotha ! !

Defense is fear. We have dogs that are fear forward, so they bite harder when a bit spooked. When you get bit by a dog in prey drive, it still hurts BAD! ! ! ! ! ! !

There are reasons to add defense, but you also have to consider that no matter what you do, you cannot train a dog 100% in prey drive while using a sleeve. The dog decides what drive he is in, and there are many factors to what made the dog go into defense, and for how long. (and how quickly he desensitizes to it)  Could be a 1/4 second, could be much longer depending on how bad you suck as a helper. LOL I find now that I am older I do not respond as quickly as I did when I was younger. Then I start laughing, as it can be so sad, and then many times I cannot get up, and I am still the dogs bitch, which is what we are looking for as far as a dogs mentality. : )

Jeff,

Excellent response.... Funny as heck as well by the way......With the radiation still falling from the sky on the other post, I am guilty of stirring up the waters a little more.

You ask why would you want that? What if I don't want the dogs initial response to be prey?  What if I want the dog's first response to be YOU or ME hombre?  Clearly would not be suitable for the dog that is flighty or is a fear to the rear with gear type of dog

I am not endorsing this, I am only trying to gain opinions.  I am also curious to know when/where you would this training, if at all, other than to increase the use of their body?

A strong dog isn't gonna be all that afraid. I have been bitten by strong dogs, and it hurts like hell. For a PP dog, what I want is a dog that bites the milisecond I say Pakken or whatever, and that is all. In prey, you will have a fast response, and defense a slow one. Which do you want??????

Preferably the faster response, provided, once the sleeve gets ripped off, the dog goes back for seconds, thirds, fourths and whatever is left goes to the county jail via the nearest ER.

See if my computer illiterate ass can get this to go.

http://www.consumptionjunction.com/downloadsnew/cj_70882.wmv

Sorry love the kick to the head. Foreign cops get to have all the fun with little crying in the media. I think this is a swiss video, not sure, but they believe in the muzzle sa a test quite strongly. Check it out.

Couldn't get it open, will try again

Muzzle work is not necessarily used to get a more pronounced defensive response. It is used to highten it's aggression, socially. In Law Enforcement, it is used to acclimate a dog to bite a person in plain clothing. There are many different ways to achieve a more pronounced civil response, muzzle just isn't the way to go about it. JMHO

TG,

Understood, that LE uses to for bad guys in w'out sleeves.....From your point of view, what would you use to get more pronounced civil and would you ever incorporate in training for other than LE work?

• Fight Drive not the same as Defense Drive.

• Fight Drive, bringing out fight in the dog towards the helper. I think sport helpers get complacent and think cracking the whip or hitting the dog with the stick is fighting with the dog.. But put a muzzle on the dog and let him take the helper to the group and fight... Nothing like being punched in the face by a muzzle... This builds fight drive!!