The DDR-trials - Page 1

Is it correct to say that the competitions in former DDR was quite easy when it comes to the bitework? It sounds quite easy with a long escape bite and a man that is under guard and the runs towards the dog, two exercizes only if I´m not misstaken. Don´t know the rules in details but I think it was only those two bites in the DDR-meisterschaft, or what do people think?

No one that knows or are intressted? What was good or bad about the SCH-competitions in DDR compared to westgermany?

Just last week i met a guy who had came to this country form Poland 20 years ago.  He hasnt  been  able to work dogs since he has been here but he was involved in schutzhund for over 15 years...was the td for his schutzhund club and competed in East Germany, Russia...various communist block countries and if I am not mistaken he said he made it to west germany for comp.  He was in law enforcment so he could get permission to travel to a free country easier than the average citizen....in fact that is how he made it to the states.

He said his dog was out of ddr lines but bred in Poland.  He was trained by a german trainer...not sure if east or west...I would think east german.

From his description the schutzhund he did was much different than what we do in the states today.  They wore a full arm sleeve...and the dog would also bite to the tricep. 

The dogs had to identify an object (dumpbell) of the handler out of several other objects...pick it up and return it to the handler.

They did food refusal from a stranger.  He told me how to do that....but I think that would ruin all of the socializaion I have done up to this point:-)

He was telling me how to get my dog ready for a trial while tracking on a sidewalk...or concrete.  I told him they dont do that in trials here...he said not for a schutzhund one but the higher levels.  I told him not on any schutzhund trial (1,2 or 3) that I now of.

I dont think they break things down to a million different types of drives like they do today.  I think they just worked the dog. 

It sounded like the bite work started at around a year old with confidence building....It seemed like they made it more about the helper...not much prey work...I could be mistaken.

They did not use toys or balls to train in obedience.  He said "Just a little food...not every time".   It depended on the age and skill level of  the dog.  He said "I never hit my dog".

The dogs sounded like they were more on the serious side....not prey monsters.

Its seems that now many of the conversations about schutzhund are about all the different drives....points in trials...etc.  He didnt mention anything like that...just training and what the end result was supposed to be although he did say he competed..

Im not sure if is a difference in the communist and free world schutzhund training or if schutzhund has changed that much in the past twenty years or so.

Someone from another forum told me that the training in Sweden is still similar to what was described to me.

It was nice to take a step back in time and listen to how things were done in another time and place.

He did ask me "Why are german sheperds now red and why do they have a hump in the back and droop in the rear?"

Being from Sweden it seems that the DDR-trials was something similar that I´m used to here, even if much differs from "our" sport and what I´ve heard/seen about DDR-trials. Sme pics from the Swedish "SCH",

http://lindjax.se/B-kull/Skydd%20Lerum-07.htm

A radical thought for this board - but besides Schutzhund there is a whole world of other dog sports out there that you can also test your dog with. For example check out the requirements for a UD ( Utility Dog) with AKC. Includes scent discrimnation not once but twice with two different materials ( metal and leather), directed jumping, directed retrieve both when there are two objects on the field and hand signals among other things. Getting a U.D. is not for the faint hearted. Also check into their tracking - the versatility track goes over concrete, roads, objects changes of terrain and is much much longer than what you get in Schutzhund.

No need to stop w/ a Schutzhund degree - give your dog a new playground. And for me the absolute favorite is herding ( unfortunately my current girl had a bit too much prey for this tho she had been used judiciously in a controlled manner to assist moving stock). I've known several Schutzhund 3 dogs that were great stock dogs.

One final comment to Jennie more on track with her original post - whenever talking about protection work several things come into play . First and foremost is time. The requirements change over time- sometimes easier sometimes harder.  What started as a breed qualification test has now morphed into a sport. Which brings us to the second point - what is asked for in a title is very different from what is done for the korung. What you described above sounds like the bitework for the korung.  My understanding also is that there has always been a slightly different courage exercise for the HGH dogs (enlighten if you can anyone who knows for sure).

I would love to see a discussion on how the work has changed over the decades and how it varies from country to country. My impression is that today there is more uniformity thru the influence of FCI, the World Union and the est of the alphabet soup that I hope to get straight one of these centuries from now.

QUOTE:

Is it correct to say that the competitions in former DDR was quite easy when it comes to the bitework? It sounds quite easy with a long escape bite and a man that is under guard and the runs towards the dog, two exercizes only if I´m not misstaken. Don´t know the rules in details but I think it was only those two bites in the DDR-meisterschaft, or what do people think?

Sch is quite easy when it comes to the bitework. LOL Goofball sport promotes the weak sister.

However, the DDR test was different, and there where different exersizes such as a pallisade, and an exersize where the dog had to crawl along the ground on its own.

I have only seen a couple vids of trials, mostly to see what kind of dog Lord VG was.

Overall, I think it is usually quite obvious when a strong dog takes the field, no matter what the sport. It just takes a while to spot the imposters LOL

Were the old ddr trials closer to what the original breed qualification  was?

Most of the changes in the sport of Sch made it easier on the weaker dog, thus making it more popular. Don't get me started on what a stupid sport this is. LOL

I think the biggest change is in the focus, and lack of experience when it comes to choosing the best dog for a stud.

We tend to look at the winner as the best, and yes, but in the context of what is best, the winner of a trial is usually middle/upper middle drive dog. This was never supposed to mean that he gets to have sex, just that he was the best dog to trial with on that day.

Good breeders overseas choose the dog that came in somewhere around 25-30, or the upper end of the middle numerically.

Lastly, I think that in the past, old timers didn't let the piss weak slide by like they do today. Hell I could go out and get pronounced at a trial for Gods sake. What a joke.

What changes has occured in SCH the last 30 years then? Is it more the focus on full grips and very flashy obedience and bitework that is the main difference compared to SCH -trials in the 60s and and early 70s?

I guess what counts most is the selection of strong breedingdogs, and not so much focus on the titles, whatever the sport it is you do. What seems to have changed over the yeras may be the judging, fast and exploslive dogs like mals tends to impress many judges, but the question is if that type of dog really is the ideal GSD, even if it wins in competitions, do we really want the GSD to be like a malinois?  Flash and speed seems to win over balanced and strong dogs many times, dogs that have powerfull and serious bitework but may lack the speed and flash and high jumps ythe malinois can perform.

As far as I know, there were no Mals in the DDR version. : )