C'MON!!!! - Page 1

Alright, I'm not the type to call someone "out" from the Ad's section but PLEASE!!!!

$2,000 Stud fee for an UNTITLED male?!!?? 

The coffee nearly came out my nose! 

Well that would be a waste of good coffee.  Thanks for pointing it out.  I'm going to find that ad and contact the owner and see if that works.  I've got an untitled male and a car that needs paid off.  Yee ha!

 REALLY, well shoot...if thats the case I got a SchH3 male and a house that needs payin off!!!  If thats the case, the stud fee for my SchH3 should be like $5,000!  I've only been chargin $650! 

I would not waste good coffee over this(smile).  So what if he charges $2000?  He has the right as a capitalist. The market dictates the price of everything.  How many people will spend that stud fee.  Probably not one, EVER.  Over the life of the stud(many years, hopefully), add up the number of times this untitled dog is used and count the dollars.  Now add up the number of times a reasonable(say the $650 figure, for grins) stud that is titled, is used.  At $650 dollars, if that stud is used 30 times the overall money he has brought in is roughly $20,000. NOW compare over the life of both examples, the bottom line.  The reasonably priced dog will CONSISTANTLY(probably) be used if he is a good producer and bring much more money over the long run.  The big picture is, the market ALWAYS corrects itself, regardless of the goods or services(unless the government gets involved, somehow).  Unless one want to use this untitled stud for their own breeding and think the price is a little steep, it really should be a non issue.

Stephen

maybe the owner meant to type $200.00    I smiled because I could picture someone taken a sip of coffee reading the add and  the coffee is all over his keyboard :)

My Grandmother used to call me a "Philadelphia Lawyer" because I loved to debate and would take the opposite side of an argument and argue for it, even if I did not agree with the side I was taking.  Having said that.

Would pups from this untitled male be anything genetically different than they would be if the stud was titled before being used?

Yes, the pups would have a daddy who has a title (sorta like Dr. or MD, etc, in humans), but genetically speaking, there would be absolutely no difference.

So, any female owner who used this male would get exactly the same thing, whether the male was titled or not, except that the owner of the litter could use daddy's title as a marketing tool.  There is a market out there for people who have bitches that are untitled because no one who has a titled male will let it stud for an untitled female.  Some GSD lovers are just not into titles.  They are into the GSD for it's inherent qualities and that is enough for them.

People who visit this web site tend to think, and always voice, that "it" should be all about improving the breed, and only breeding those dogs that have proved themselves.  There is a market out there for pets, and it is much larger than the market for Schutzhund or other types of working (assuming we agree that Schutzhund is "working") dogs.  Most people are not trying to improve anything in this world.  They are just living day to day, and getting what joy they can between working and paying taxes.  They take care of their pets exceptionally in most cases (of course there are those that don't).  There are also breeders of GSD's that are not puppy mills, who use non-titled dogs and take exceptional care of their dogs and pups.  They love the breeding of GSD's but can not title their dogs because of their life style or they just could care less about titles because their own daddy was not titled a Doctor, Sir, or Esquire.

Okay, I could go on and on about this, but enough already.  Just food for thought and being ornery

Do right I couldn't even finish your post, it irritated me too much, lol.

Okay one of two things is going on here.

1. This guy is not very knowledgeable of the breed, pedigrees and what makes a GSD "valuble" to the masses (titles/hip cert etc.)... and he really does think his dog is that valuble, that rare and that important to the breed.

OR

2. He know's his dog is mediocre AT BEST and he's trying to take ADVANTAGE of people who don't know any better to make a quick buck.  Dispicably throwing out big names and impressive titles of dogs four generations back, saying he's limiting breeding to only 5 outside females this year to make him sound like he's the best thing since sliced bread and people are lining up around the building. 

This dog isn't even OFA'd for Christ sake!!! 

BREEDING UNTITLED DOGS IS NOT THE ISSUE HERE!!! It's about  charging what they're worth.  What increases a dogs value is the time $ and effort put into training and titling... the number of titles.... the level of competition etc.    

Do Right, your statement about the genetics being the same if the male is titled or not is true. his genetic makeup is set. but it is a misleading arguement.  what genetics are there? are the good or bad? the title only shows that the genetics for a solid all around GSD are there and by breeding to him you are more likely to get dogs of a similar nature. now breed to a dog from an add that has no title, what qualities are you getting from the sire? you don't know. so going with a titled stud you are bettering your odds of producing a great litter of allaround gsd's.

as for there being a market for people who only want a GSD for a pet is true. isn't that where most of the problems we see with the GSD come from?  the public and their pets. i've not seen where a GSD from a quality line of titled dogs has attacked or mauled someone unprovoked. it's always those that got their dog from someone who bred their bitch to this guy's dog because "well he had a male GSD."

By the way, which stud dog ad is it?  I looked briefly but I didn't see that price tag anywhere.

I'm with SchHBabe on this, I couldn't find the ad either.